Opinion Poll: Should all new guns be tracked cradle to grave?

[hillelslovak87]

Sure, in the sense that the 2nd is a prohibition on the federal government only. That's why most state Constitutions also contain guarantees of the the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Those that didn't were still disallowed from disarming the people by the Constitution, but not the 2nd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presser_v._Illinois






They spoke of the people. That's the group of individuals that make up the population.

The governor of a particular state, not the people, would decide when to deploy the militia, when to give them arms, or ammo, etc.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Trust and fear are two different things. Democrats are the ones who are afraid, that’s why threads like this get made by them. Democrats want to remove the ‘checks and balances’.

Oh, like when Obama became king, right? Yep, it's the dems trying to remove checks and balances by refusing any and all legal requests from a co-equal branch of government, and bypassing congress for wall money despite being bitchslapped in negotiations time after time.

Yep.

 

[Fawlty]

@AGGAMEMNON66 your claim of no due process is looking busted.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...=2354&GAID=14&LegID=102977&SpecSess=&Session=

Order looks required to me. And an ex parte restraining order can only be temporary, requiring a full hearing w/in 2 weeks. Emergency orders require a judge to sign off on probable cause, lots of good looking provisions. I think you have the obligation to address this, since you declared it a fact and showed no evidence. While I am showing evidence that due process is there. And not only that, the process is built on an existing, tried and true framework used for people who pose a threat.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

The Federalist paper quotes you listed speak of militias, not of individuals, however. Trusting the citizens with arms went as far as what the state itself deemed at that point, hence the storage facilities for the militia aged men's muskets in many states, powder and ammo houses to store ammo, etc. A few states even had more odd strictures, like allowing the musket in the militia age person's home, but severely restricting the amount of ammo one could have, or keeping the ammo in storehouses all together.

It wasn't just "Fuck it, everyone get your guns, and ANY armament whatsoever!!!"

Incorrect. They literally mentioned citizens not militia. They clearly make the distinction. Why wouldn't they just say militia over and over if that's all they meant. And that is just maddison quotes.

Militia members in the regular or active militia had rules and standards to follow. Even standards of the minimum arsenal they must have.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

The people didn't form the militias, the state did.

That's not what I said.

The people were and are allowed to form a militia...

 

[hillelslovak87]

Incorrect. They literally mentioned citizens not militia. They clearly make the distinction. Why wouldn't they just say militia over and over if that's all they meant. And that is just maddison quotes.

Militia members in the regular or active militia had rules and standards to follow. Even standards of the minimum arsenal they must have.

They mentioned citizens and militias. The citizen is part of the militia, given they meet the requirements for their particular state. And once again, the rules in each state were different, and up to the states. Many let the militia aged citizens keep their guns, some didn't.

 

[hillelslovak87]

That's not what I said.

The people were and are allowed to form a militia...

The state government creates the militia. Random people didn't just start up state militias out of thin air. It was operated by the state, that's the entire point of Mason and Henry's arguments.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

The state government creates the militia. Random people didn't just start up state militias out of thin air. It was operated by the state, that's the entire point of Mason and Henry's arguments.

Are you purposely misinterpreting my posts? The state had an official regular militia yes, that didn't prevent the people from forming their own. Local, town, etc militias also fought in wars, disputes, etc.

So I'll repeat, people are and were (did) allowed to form local and private militias.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." George Mason

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."

SCOTUS justice Joseph Story 1833

 

[RerouteToRemain]

They mentioned citizens and militias. The citizen is part of the militia, given they meet the requirements for their particular state. And once again, the rules in each state were different, and up to the states. Many let the militia aged citizens keep their guns, some didn't.

Lol what? Do you think only militia members had guns?

It's pretty simple. It's not the right of the militia, it's the right of the people.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Lol what? Do you think only militia members had guns?

It's pretty simple. It's not the right of the militia, it's the right of the people.

It seems rather clear that the context in which people would have guns would be left to the states. Some states had restrictions on guns being stored in the homes of citizens, and opted to make rules pertaining to storage houses for them.

They left it up to the states, and they handled it differently amongst themselves.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The governor of a particular state, not the people, would decide when to deploy the militia, when to give them arms, or ammo, etc.

That's a dumb response to what I posted. If you weren't talking out your ass like you know something on the subject you could do better.

 

[Viva]

Congrats, there are 20 retards ITT.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Are you purposely misinterpreting my posts?

Dude's pretty stupid by WR standards and I usually don't bother with him.

 

[hillelslovak87]

That's a dumb response to what I posted. If you weren't talking out your ass like you know something on the subject you could do better.

Fantastic refutation.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Fantastic refutation.

There's nothing to refute when you don't address what's said. Bye. You're worthless.

 

[hillelslovak87]

There's nothing to refute when you don't address what's said. Bye. You're worthless.

Lol, enjoy the dubs.

 

[freakroor]

more laws always solves things

 

[Viva]

Lol, enjoy the dubs.

What kind of child relishes someone being reprimanded?

 

[hillelslovak87]

What kind of child relishes someone being reprimanded?

To the point, yet entirely pointless. Good on you.

 

[usmctanker242]

Just look what happened in 2009 during the Red River flood (Alberta).
The city is evacuated and the police break into homes of registered gun owners and steal their guns. No tags or anyway of determining who they belong to.
Yet another “solution” that only targets responsible gun owners.

Or what happened during Hurricane Katrina.