Economy 22 Studies Agree Medicare for All Would Save Money

[Headkicktoleg]

Of course single payer will reduce costs because the single payer will not pay market price. Then the market with deteriorate and there will be doctor shortages, because who wants to go to school til you're in your 30s to make 100k a year. Then hospitals will go out of business because they can't keep up with market prices for things that aren't artificially controlled by the government like their revenue.

 

[AndroidRage]

Of course single payer will reduce costs because the single payer will not pay market price. Then the market with deteriorate and there will be doctor shortages, because who wants to go to school til you're in your 30s to make 100k a year. Then hospitals will go out of business because they can't keep up with market prices for things that aren't artificially controlled by the government like their revenue.

Is that what happened to all the other countries that have UHC? Could you maybe try and act like a normal person instead of a brain dead retard?

 

[AndroidRage]

You have long wait lines now. It's called waiting for insurance to approve. And I can find just a many stories of people going to Canada for medication.

How about being kicked out of the hospital right before surgery because the insurance ran out? How about the hospital taking your house because you couldn't afford the cancer in the first place?

There are actually many more Americans that go to Canada for Medical Care than the other way around. Rand Paul for instance. Decided to go to Canada for a procedure instead of getting it in the US.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I doubt the US will be able to meet it on 3 key needs: Dr's won't take the pay cut to Medicare rates; won't be able to do total UHC at admin cost of 2% (us welfare admin cost is near 10%); and finally won't be implemented without offsetting cost with a federal sales tax (which would be highly unpopular).

 

[panamaican]

I doubt the US will be able to meet it on 3 key needs: Dr's won't take the pay cut to Medicare rates; won't be able to do total UHC at admin cost of 2% (us welfare admin cost is near 10%); and finally won't be implemented without offsetting cost with a federal sales tax (which would be highly unpopular).

I actually disagree with all 3 of those arguments.

1) People make the doctor argument all of the time. They've also made it in every other industry that was facing change. Yet in never materializes. Dr's will take the pay cut because even with a pay cut, the job still pays better than 95% of the alternatives. Which is really the point of comparison. Can they make more doing something else? And frankly, they can't. Some might say finance or tech. But there's only so many high paying positions in each of those industries. People self-sort on these things, There'a a dramatic under-assumption about the raw number of smart people to take these positions.

2) I don't think the admin cost will get down to 2% but I think welfare is a poor comparison. The admin cost issue with welfare is that it's a fragmented system. Multiple different programs, multiple different income requirements, cross-referencing each other, etc. M4A if a single entity should be able to have lower admin costs than general welfare programs.

3) We wouldn't do a sales tax, it would be another income tax.

 

[JoshTehV]

This is a lost cause, people here would rather pay twice the amount than help another American out who is going through a rough patch. They aren't thinking about their children and their fellow Americans instead they'll talk about how they did it the right way, worked their ass off and paid their taxes and refuse to help some bum out. I have asthma, I came back from a country that took care of me and gave me medication for 1/10th of the price. Those bastards wanted to charge me 400 bucks for two prescriptions.

an x ray is around a grand out of pocket, and a 2-3 block alumbance ride is around 18-20k

 

[zebby23]

I’d rather pay more if minorities don’t have access to healthcare

But in all seriousness is there a study that shows otherwise?

lol 100% this. The issue isn’t cost. The low iq right simply hide behind the cost. It’s that they don’t want minorities having the same access to healthcare they have. They need to be 1 up on the minorities, not equal.

 

[zebby23]

Of course single payer will reduce costs because the single payer will not pay market price. Then the market with deteriorate and there will be doctor shortages, because who wants to go to school til you're in your 30s to make 100k a year. Then hospitals will go out of business because they can't keep up with market prices for things that aren't artificially controlled by the government like their revenue.

Lol, every other country seems to do it fine.

 

[zebby23]

an x ray is around a grand out of pocket, and a 2-3 block alumbance ride is around 18-20k

no, just no to all of this.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I actually disagree with all 3 of those arguments.

1) People make the doctor argument all of the time. They've also made it in every other industry that was facing change. Yet in never materializes. Dr's will take the pay cut because even with a pay cut, the job still pays better than 95% of the alternatives. Which is really the point of comparison. Can they make more doing something else? And frankly, they can't. Some might say finance or tech. But there's only so many high paying positions in each of those industries. People self-sort on these things, There'a a dramatic under-assumption about the raw number of smart people to take these positions.

I'm not debating that they will switch careers, I'm saying Dr's will push back and it will result in payouts being higher than Medicare rates. I think currently they sit 3-4x higher, if they settle on 2x it still greatly skews the cost analysis of implementation. AMA already bucked back at warrens initial M4A plan saying it devalued health care providers and her plan had pay out at 1.3 - 1.6 of Medicare rates. Public support of drs also rank much higher than politicians, so I'm betting there will support for drs not take on large paycuts

2) I don't think the admin cost will get down to 2% but I think welfare is a poor comparison. The admin cost issue with welfare is that it's a fragmented system. Multiple different programs, multiple different income requirements, cross-referencing each other, etc. M4A if a single entity should be able to have lower admin costs than general welfare programs.

I too, do not think M4A will result in a 10 percent admin cost, but I do think welfare comparables of applicant processes, public services administration of health cards, increased demand all result in a higher than 2% cost - which ultimately again skews the cost analysis

3) We wouldn't do a sales tax, it would be another income tax.

I'm willing to bet huge that the US would implement a federal sales tax (or VAT) if they do pass m4a -- you would be the only developed OECD nation to implement UHC without one and consumer expenditure is what, a 14 trillion dollar a year revenue stream? Cant see Sanders not taping into it.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Lol, every other country seems to do it fine.

They also don't have an economy around it.

 

[zebby23]

They also don't have an economy around it.

For some reason me no think it’s the cost you are so worried about.

If we could prove to you that UHC would save billions per year and would save you personally 5 grand a year would you be on board?

 

[Headkicktoleg]

For some reason me no think it’s the cost you are so worried about.

If we could prove to you that UHC would save billions per year and would save you personally 5 grand a year would you be on board?

Not if it means I'll die earlier and get worse healthcare through my life

 

[zebby23]

Not if it means I'll die earlier and get worse healthcare through my life

Like i said, this isn’t about money. Let’s be honest, it’s not about the quality of your healthcare either. Let’s talk about what it’s really about.

I have family in Canada, a lot of them. They don’t wait for essential services. Anyone telling you different is lying. Wait times are for things like hip replacements, cataracts and other non life threatening surgeries

 

[JoshTehV]

no, just no to all of this.

That’s what I was billed buddy, idk what the fuck your on about. Health care services bait and switch harder then weed dealers do

 

[Hollywood Jack]

This is a lost cause, people here would rather pay twice the amount than help another American out who is going through a rough patch. They aren't thinking about their children and their fellow Americans instead they'll talk about how they did it the right way, worked their ass off and paid their taxes and refuse to help some bum out. I have asthma, I came back from a country that took care of me and gave me medication for 1/10th of the price. Those bastards wanted to charge me 400 bucks for two prescriptions.

The funny thing is that those people with the "good union insurance plan" they don't want to "lose" who support Biden or Platitude Pete, are vulnerable to medical bankruptcies when the shit hits the fan. I have "good insurance" myself and am relatively young and in good health, but I've still been gouged a few times in the current system, including once during routine dental surgery and another time because of a routine visit with a specialist that was initially covered by my insurance, but then they did not. Only single payer will prevent this from happening to any of us.

Please read through this tweet thread...

 

[zebby23]

That’s what I was billed buddy, idk what the fuck your on about. Health care services bait and switch harder then weed dealers do

No ambulance ride is 20grand. No sir, no way, no how

 

[djacobox372]

Of course single payer will reduce costs because the single payer will not pay market price. Then the market with deteriorate and there will be doctor shortages, because who wants to go to school til you're in your 30s to make 100k a year. Then hospitals will go out of business because they can't keep up with market prices for things that aren't artificially controlled by the government like their revenue.

LOL at how this statement contradicts itself.

Says single payer won't pay market price, then describes how the market would correct for this behavior which logically would force the government to pay market price.

Single payer reduces costs because it massively cuts administration costs, and uncovers the true market price for hospitals and doctors which is currently substantially inflated in the US.

I agree that many doctors won't go to school for that long for just 100k a year, but they will work for what they get paid outside of the US which is a lot less than they are making now.

 

[kenetics]

I would rather pay more for MY insurance just to make sure no lazy people get anything for free.

Health care should be a right for everyone including you lol .

 

[franklinstower]

Health care should be a right for everyone including you lol .

I was being sarcastic. You know its bad when the worst thing you can say sounds just like the opposition.