Elections Democrats: Vote for us or the USA may stop funding the Ukraine War

[Islam Imamate]

That doesn't make your statement any less false. It was a bi-partisan position. Even the majority of the public was initially for it. People have short memories with that shit, and want to play fast and loose with history when it suits them. You can nickle and dime all day long, but the notion that "Democrats were against the Iraq war" is just false.

Majority of House Dems voting against the war doesn't suggest that Dems were against the war?

Like I said not all Dems were and in the Senate most voted for it but it was a close split(29 for, 21 against) whereas as only 1/49 GOP Senators voted against it. The opposition to the war came almost exclusively from the Democrat side, that can't be denied.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Boiling down the immigration problem solely to border security is part of the problem. What they should really be asked is what kind of regional response to migrant flows do they have in mind rather than myopically focusing on the US southern border which should be the last line of defense, not the first.

Also not clear what the difference on border security is. We've seen a long-term continuity in policies there.

 

[HereticBD]

The opposition to the war came almost exclusively from the Democrat side, that can't be denied.

That's not what you said. There was no nuance to your blanket statement of "Democrats didn't support the Iraq War". An especially ridiculous notion, considering the current President voted for it.

Quit tap dancing and take the L.

 

[brothir]

No?

Must be nice to be a goldfish. All the bad things, none of them stick.

 

[calavera2]

It’s not like the rubes have become notoriously famous for their putin loving and general hard on for authoritarian, so I wonder where they got that idea <{chips}>

I'm sure the Trumpers want everyone to forget...but I remember

 

[irish_thug]

That's ridiculous. Everyone knows both sides love a good proxy war.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's not what you said. There was no nuance to your blanket statement of "Democrats didn't support the Iraq War". An especially ridiculous notion, considering the current President voted for it.

Quit tap dancing and take the L.

 

[HereticBD]

Concession accepted.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Must be nice to be a goldfish. All the bad things, none of them stick.

Yeah, just so weird to me how shameless people are. Like, you could certainly make a plausible argument that the conditions in 2008 and 2020 weren't Republicans' fault, but to deny that the country was in terrible shape at the times of the elections is just crazy. It's a kind of aggressive dishonesty that is usually associated with totalitarianism. Like people are trying to prove that they're good soldiers by the fact that they'll boldly say stuff that no one believes they believe.

 

[Ichibanner]

Boiling down the immigration problem solely to border security is part of the problem. What they should really be asked is what kind of regional response to migrant flows do they have in mind rather than myopically focusing on the US southern border which should be the last line of defense, not the first.

I agree that the immigration doesn't strictly boil down to the Southern Border and that focus also needs to put elsewhere concerning immigration. I never mentioned the Southern Border, nor did I mean to imply that as a sole focus although I could see why people would immediately focus on the Southern Border concerning my post.

I've yet to hear a projection of how big the US Population can get before life within these borders is negatively impacted or becomes unsustainable or; what plan exists to create the capability to sustain continue unabated population growth.

 

[Terry Noonan]

1861 was one time.

I awarded no lifelines! Jack chose not to reply. He seems to think the country collapsed in 2008 and 2020 which is remarkable stuff.

 

[Terry Noonan]

How? Dems are against Russia's invasion of Ukraine just like they were against the invasion of Iraq. Seems consistent to me.

Boiling down the immigration problem solely to border security is part of the problem. What they should really be asked is what kind of regional response to migrant flows do they have in mind rather than myopically focusing on the US southern border which should be the last line of defense, not the first.

As someone else stated, Biden voted for the invasion, right? I don’t recall but sounds right given his ability to be on the wrong side of almost everything.

 

[Islam Imamate]

As someone else stated, Biden voted for the invasion, right? I don’t recall but sounds right given his ability to be on the wrong side of almost everything.

True but as I said the opposition to the war was almost exclusively from the Dems. Basically the break down was almost all Republicans were for it with the Democrats more or less split with House Dems voting against the AUMF and Senate Dems voting for.

 

[Terry Noonan]

True but as I said the opposition to the war was almost exclusively from the Dems. Basically the break down was almost all Republicans were for it with the Democrats more or less split with House Dems voting against the AUMF and Senate Dems voting for.

I think both parties suck and do not have everyone’s best interest at heart. Iraq was a mistake but we lost many Americans there so I’m not gonna harp on it and piss on their graves.
At hand, I think aiding Ukraine is “right” from a moral perspective and I hope they win. At somepoint it’s fair to question the amount of money given the US’ financials are a bit of a mess. We’re leveraged to the hill as it is.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think both parties suck and do not have everyone’s best interest at heart. Iraq was a mistake but we lost many Americans there so I’m not gonna harp on it and piss on their graves.
At hand, I think aiding Ukraine is “right” from a moral perspective and I hope they win. At somepoint it’s fair to question the amount of money given the US’ financials are a bit of a mess. We’re leveraged to the hill as it is.

My point was simply that it makes perfect sense for those who were against the Iraq war to be against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

As far as the financial support of Ukraine and the question of when are we spending too much, that is a fair ask but I think that if you look into it you'll see that our aid to Ukraine is an incredible bang for our buck. We're bleeding one of our greatest geopolitical rivals dry and with military aid that accounts for less than the amount we have sent to countries like Israel and Iraq in the 21st century which accomplished a lot less than what the aid to Ukraine is.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

That's just how it was sold to you. It's actually how they sell everything. It's a tried and true method. All they have to do is convince you that you're being the "good guys" and you'll do whatever they say, and give them anything that they need - at your own detriment.

Even if they are just doing it to embezzle money or fund their bioweapons operations in other countries.

So Iraq and Ukraine are the same?

 

[Jack V Savage]

My point was simply that it makes perfect sense for those who were against the Iraq war to be against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

As far as the financial support of Ukraine and the question of when are we spending too much, that is a fair ask but I think that if you look into it you'll see that our aid to Ukraine is an incredible bang for our buck. We're bleeding one of our greatest geopolitical rivals dry and with military aid that accounts for less than the amount we have sent to countries like Israel and Iraq in the 21st century which accomplished a lot less than what the aid to Ukraine is.

I don't even think that's the bulk of what we're getting. If Russia succeeds at a war of conquest, it opens the door to a lot of really bad shit (most obviously Chinese expansion, plus Putin will want more). I think it's very important for the democratic world to make the point that that is not acceptable, and we're doing it incredibly cheaply.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I agree that the immigration doesn't strictly boil down to the Southern Border and that focus also needs to put elsewhere concerning immigration. I never mentioned the Southern Border, nor did I mean to imply that as a sole focus although I could see why people would immediately focus on the Southern Border concerning my post.

I've yet to hear a projection of how big the US Population can get before life within these borders is negatively impacted or becomes unsustainable or; what plan exists to create the capability to sustain continue unabated population growth.

I don't think population growth is a serious problem, if anything we have the opposite issue given our cratering birth rates and aging population.

I don't even think that's the bulk of what we're getting. If Russia succeeds at a war of conquest, it opens the door to a lot of really bad shit (most obviously Chinese expansion, plus Putin will want more). I think it's very important for the democratic world to make the point that that is not acceptable, and we're doing it incredibly cheaply.

Beyond that I just don't think its a good faith criticism. Initially when it looked like Russia might overrun Ukraine Biden was being criticized for being weak. Now that the tide has shifted heavily in favor of Ukraine the argument is how war is bad and we shouldn't be involved

 

[Jack V Savage]

I don't think population growth is a serious problem, if anything we have the opposite issue given our cratering birth rates and aging population.

And labor shortage! We definitely need to be focused on growing our population. Fucking crazy that people are arguing otherwise.

Beyond that I just don't think its a good faith criticism. Initially when it looked like Russia might overrun Ukraine Biden was being criticized for being weak. Now that the tide has shifted heavily in favor of Ukraine the argument is how war is bad and we shouldn't be involved

Yeah, of course not. What I can't get over is how giving support to people who have been invaded is considered a pro-war position. Textbook example of the attack on meaning.

 

[MicroBrew]

Majority of House Dems voting against the war doesn't suggest that Dems were against the war?

Like I said not all Dems were and in the Senate most voted for it but it was a close split(29 for, 21 against) whereas as only 1/49 GOP Senators voted against it. The opposition to the war came almost exclusively from the Democrat side, that can't be denied.

And Obama was against the war when he was the junior Senator. In 2008 Hillary had the innitial lead as the Democrat nominee for President but one of the major factors that did her in and elevated Obama is her support for the Iraq war and Obama's opposition. That says where Democract grassroots sympathies lie.