Opinion How to pay for Medicare 4 all

Seano said:
The government will surely keep costs stable and affordable . Thats what they're known for.
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No, not at all, but it is basically impossible to do worse.

Why do you fear possible failure when our current path is a plan for guaranteed failure?

Medical inflation continuing as it has for a 40 year period ran by private health care, is guaranteed to bankrupt this whole country, if we do nothing.
 
Just look at the student loan industry if you doubt our governments ability to handle healthcare.

You gotta be a fkn idiot I swear to God. These pieces of shit can't even make it possible to sell insurance across state lines. ...they can't even agree to negotiate medication prices for current medicare recipients.
 
Sohei said:
Joking? what about the way the private industry runs it is 'efficient'?
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It's inefficient because literally ALL costs are hidden from the consumer and then prices are raised to an exorbitant amount for people who don't pay with insurance.

Transparent costs, cross state insurance and not allowing different costs for insurance/no insurance would go a lonnngggg way. These things would probably have to be implemented incrementally anyway before there were a single payer system as to not crash the whole system.
 
IMO we should make Mexico pay for it.
 
VivaRevolution said:
People want to make this really complicated, when in fact it is very simple.

We already pay more for HC than anyone.

The money is already being spent.

The only question is how would the government go about collecting the money that is already going to the HC industry.

Does everyone understand this?

Do people actually understand that whether co-pays, deductibles, employer payments, that all of this is already being paid for?

That no more money actually needs to be paid for Medicare 4 All.

Discuss......
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Nothing here is an argument
 
Oliver Clothesoff said:
I don't trust OUR Government not to squander the money, use it for other things, underpay Doctors and Nurses, reduce benefits, raise taxes on the MC, lower the quality of care and increase the wait times. Other than that I think they'd do a bang up job. :p
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You trust someone whose only motivation is profit wether on not they approve a procedure or test.
You right there is no examples of anyone dying because a for profit insurance company denied a medication or procedure for a person.
 
VivaRevolution said:
The HC industry is Stalin, to the government's Hitler.

Hitler gets the headlines, but the numbers don't lie.

I dare you to show me a failure the government has on the scale of wasting 7% of GDP.

Come on now, you are smart. You know that flushing away 3 Trillion dollars a year is waste and graft on a level the government has wet dreams about.

The Pentagon wishes it could commit 3 Trillion dollars of fraud a year.
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Antisemitic right here.

footodors said:
So govt will run healthcare at as least as efficiently as private industry? I'll gladly pay the profit tax of 10% just keep the government out of it.
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Isn't it well understood that socialized HC systems like Canada, UK, and Germany are all move efficient than the US?

Oliver Clothesoff said:
I don't trust OUR Government not to squander the money, use it for other things, underpay Doctors and Nurses, reduce benefits, raise taxes on the MC, lower the quality of care and increase the wait times. Other than that I think they'd do a bang up job. :p
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This is a good point. Canada added a 7% sales tax with the specific aim that every penny raised through that tax would pay the debt. It took like months before that stopped. 15+ years later we still have that tax and a larger debt than ever. Ontario did the same thing with lottery profits.
 
Did not know TS was banned.

Anyone know what happened? Not someone I always agree with but also not someone I saw make what I would call ban worthy posts.

Anyway too his topic BELOW is a very detailed and informed layout of the costs of Medicare for all for those who actually want something to dig in to.

 
MikeMcMann said:
Did not know TS was banned.

Anyone know what happened? Not someone I always agree with but also not someone I saw make what I would call ban worthy posts.

Anyway too his topic BELOW is a very detailed and informed layout of the costs of Medicare for all for those who actually want something to dig in to.

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What assumptions does the study make?
 
sabretruth said:
What assumptions does the study make?
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Cliffs equal reading green highlighted only.


Follow the Lancet study link below to see assumptions which they state are conservative. They provide a calculator however so anyone can adjust the assumptions up or down and see the impact...

Multiple studies show Medicare for All would be cheaper than public option pushed by moderates

Two new studies found that the Medicare for All plan proposed by candidates like Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., would cost less than the public option proposed by former Vice President Joe Biden and other moderates in the Democratic primary.

Two new studies further showed that the Medicare for All plan is not only cheaper than the status quo but also costs less than the public option moderates have claimed is more fiscally sound.

A study published in The Lancet this month by researchers at Yale University, the University of Florida and the University of Maryland estimated that Medicare for All would save $450 billion per year — about $2,400 in annual savings per family — and would prevent more than 68,000 unnecessary deaths each year.

"Our study is actually conservative because it doesn't factor in the lives saved among underinsured Americans—which includes anyone who nominally has insurance but has postponed or foregone care because they couldn't afford the copays and deductibles," Yale researcher Alison Galvani told Newsweek.

Medicare for All would allow the government to negotiate prices for care, as most Western nations with single-payer systems already do, and reduce overhead costs.

Biden and Buttigieg's proposals would actually increase costs, Galvani said.

"Without the savings to overhead, pharmaceutical costs, hospital/clinical fees, and fraud detection, 'Medicare for all who want it' could annually cost $175 billion dollars more than status quo," Galvani told Newsweek. "That's over $600 billion more than Medicare for all."

Another study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine by researchers at Harvard University, Hunter College and the University of Ottawa similarly estimated that switching to a single-payer system like Medicare for All could save up to $600 billion per year on administrative costs alone.

The study found that the average American pays $2,597 per year on administrative costs — overhead for insurers and hospitals, salaries, huge executive compensation packages and growing profits — while Canadians pay $551 per year.

Though Canada had costs similar to the United States and worse health outcomes before it adopted its single-payer system in 1962, Canada now has better health outcomes than the United States and only spends 17% of its health care spending on administrative costs, compared to 34% in the U.S.

"Americans spend twice as much per person as Canadians on health care. But instead of buying better care, that extra spending buys us sky-high profits and useless paperwork," lead author Dr. David Himmelstein, who teaches at Harvard and Hunter College, said in a statement. "Before their single-payer reform, Canadians died younger than Americans, and their infant mortality rate was higher than ours. Now Canadians live three years longer and their infant mortality rate is 22% lower than ours. Under Medicare for All, Americans could cut out the red tape and afford a Rolls Royce version of Canada's system."

Himmelstein told Time that the savings in administrative costs alone would be enough to eliminate "all copayments and deductibles" and still "have money left over."

But while Medicare for All would reduce these costs by eliminating private profit-seeking insurers, the public option alternative would add costs while leaving the bloated administrative costs in place.

"Medicare for All could save more than $600 billion each year on bureaucracy, and repurpose that money to cover America's 30 million uninsured and eliminate copayments and deductibles for everyone," said researcher Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, who also teaches at Harvard and Hunter. "Reforms like a public option that leave private insurers in place can't deliver big administrative savings. As a result, public option reform would cost much more and cover much less than Medicare for All."

Other studies have led to similar conclusions. A review of 22 single-payer studies published in PLOS Medicine found that 19 of them "predicted net savings ... in the first year of program operation and 20 ... predicted savings over several years; anticipated growth rates would result in long-term net savings for all plans."

Studies have also widely disputed other claims made by opponents of Medicare for All....


 
I'll add to the above that if, in fact the studies are true and the Canadian system is getting superior outcomes at a cheaper cost that is a real indictment on the US system as the Canadian system is, in no way an efficient example of a Single Payer model, as Canada made the massive mistake of going beyond just nationalizing the Insurance and took on all the cost of infrastructure (hospitals) and caregivers (Doctors, nurses, janitors, etc) which is just a really dumb thing for gov'ts to take on.

Gov'ts need to control the Insurance Pool and thus control costs and services delivery but allow the free market to compete for and provide the services.

France, UK and others have far more efficient systems than Canada by staying out of that area.
 
I know someone who has a plan for this. For just 2 cents on the dollar, which is only charged to the "Ultra rich", we can all have free healthcare/childcare and college!
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