How would Joe Rogan do against the average blue belt?

[Kforcer]

Yeah it happened and in a non competitive environment. Muhamad Ali got brutalised more than once in sparring. Guess what their sparring partners would never brag about "beating" him.

UFC and their employees was always a strange macho relationship kinda like pro wrestling. Either they elevated themselves to comical levels like with Rogan "I would beat mma fighters if I only wanted" and esp. Dana White stories or they would put down mma fighters to compensate their insecurities. This is part of these storylines.

Oh yeah, absolutely, in a non-competitive environment. I'm just saying, it is relevant to assessing Joe's ability or lack thereof on the ground. I mean, even given all the necessary caveats and qualifiers, I still think that's impressive on some level or at least suggestive of a certain level of ability. I mean, take into account the context but also still take it into account. IMO.

As far as never bragging about beating someone sparring, I think we both know that isn't necessarily the case. I've run into it in grappling plenty and I've witnessed it when it came to sparring with others as well. It shouldn't be the case, because practice is practice, but it isn't. I mean, I know all about James Page allegedly knocking down DLH in sparring because he talked about it. How did the world know about Ernie Terrell breaking Ali's ribs in sparring? Might not have been Terrell that publicized it, but it got out. I actually know a guy who trained at Jackson's and brags about having tapped Greg Jackson of all people. I had a student that used to brag about his practice taps all the time. That's neither here nor there though. Just saying, plenty of people violate the "don't talk about it" rule.

As far as Rogan, do you really think he markets himself as superior to fighters? I think that might more be the way people talk about HIM, than how he talks about himself. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of his show, but from what I've seen, he's more into pumping up the abilities of the UFC fighters than into trying to present himself as on their level. For example, in describing a time where he hung out at a UFC after party, he said that he was in a room full of guys that "could rape me if they wanted to." I didn't get the idea that Rogan was trying to stroke his ego rolling with Rampage; the way he acted afraid before they started rolling suggests otherwise, for one. I think it was just a situation they were put into because it was part of what the UFC decided to record them doing.

That said, I think that making your staff seem on par with the fighters is horrible marketing. I think you want to sell the public on the elite, nearly superhuman level of the athletes you are asking them to invest their money in. I think to the extent the UFC does do what you're talking about them doing, it is a mistake. They probably think it is a good idea to invest in their brand over fighters because fighters come and go, win and lose, etc., but their brand is something they can control.

 

[Da Speeit]

I default back to my statement that’s he’s trolling and you guys are feeding him.

You’ve yet to answer my question as to where Joe, a Master’s 5 Blackbelt with chronic injuries who practically doesn’t train, is going to encounter problems.
A few people have said “uhhh purple belts”
Okay, why? What’s the difference between your average purple and average blue? Not much imo

 

[ChickenBrother]

good post, but why are we so sure about this? What is it based on? Rogan being in “good shape” for a 54 year old?

dude hasn’t trained seriously for a decade now

LOL I think we're saying the same thing. By "good shape," I mean Rogan takes physical fitness more seriously than most 54 year olds. But as per my earlier post, he's obviously not prioritizing grappling conditioning which is more about cardio than strength. If he were he'd be a lot smaller and carry less muscle. He appears to be training more for physique and while he looks great for his age, his grappling cardio is probably for shit.

 

[Da Speeit]

Oh yeah, absolutely, in a non-competitive environment. I'm just saying, it is relevant to assessing Joe's ability or lack thereof on the ground. I mean, even given all the necessary caveats and qualifiers, I still think that's impressive on some level or at least suggestive of a certain level of ability. I mean, take into account the context but also still take it into account. IMO.

As far as never bragging about beating someone sparring, I think we both know that isn't necessarily the case. I've run into it in grappling plenty and I've witnessed it when it came to sparring with others as well. It shouldn't be the case, because practice is practice, but it isn't. I mean, I know all about James Page allegedly knocking down DLH in sparring because he talked about it. How did the world know about Ernie Terrell breaking Ali's ribs in sparring? Might not have been Terrell that publicized it, but it got out. I actually know a guy who trained at Jackson's and brags about having tapped Greg Jackson of all people. I had a student that used to brag about his practice taps all the time. That's neither here nor there though. Just saying, plenty of people violate the "don't talk about it" rule.

As far as Rogan, do you really think he markets himself as superior to fighters? I think that might more be the way people talk about HIM, than how he talks about himself. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of his show, but from what I've seen, he's more into pumping up the abilities of the UFC fighters than into trying to present himself as on their level. For example, in describing a time where he hung out at a UFC after party, he said that he was in a room full of guys that "could rape me if they wanted to." I didn't get the idea that Rogan was trying to stroke his ego rolling with Rampage; the way he acted afraid before they started rolling suggests otherwise, for one. I think it was just a situation they were put into because it was part of what the UFC decided to record them doing.

That said, I think that making your staff seem on par with the fighters is horrible marketing. I think you want to sell the public on the elite, nearly superhuman level of the athletes you are asking them to invest their money in. I think to the extent the UFC does do what you're talking about them doing, it is a mistake. They probably think it is a good idea to invest in their brand over fighters because fighters come and go, win and lose, etc., but their brand is something they can control.

Joe forsure embellishes his abilities on the mat and in the gym.
We disagree on some crucial points but you’ve done a good job illustrating your stance; Joe has convinced a lot of his gullible fans that he is the absolute mode of peak performance and leaves out major details (the one im harping on being that he rarely if ever trains). His average fan, even a few in here, seem to think Joe is just living the #jitslife and wrecking a bunch of blackbelts behind closed doors 3 days a week. Not the case, and hasn’t been since he got his blackbelt.

Like your comment he’s an “average+”’blackbelt.
Ummmm no. Not remotely close. Joe is 54 and hardly trains. The average blackbelt that does is and has consistently for years is way more in bjj shape and has the reflexes, momentum and sharpened skill.
I don’t know how many blackbelts you guys have access to, but even the “average” ones that consistently train are going to fucking demolish one that doesnt.

if this were about any other 54 year old blackbelt who is pretty much retired from BJJ and didnt even train consistently at Brown, you guys would agreee, but you have this image of Joe based on his own tales of himself that seems unrealistic.

 

[dirtypablo]

Jesus dude. Where are you getting this idea he doesn't train anymore?? Here's a video from 2020 - notice how he isn't talking past tense - he still actively trains.

 

[Kforcer]

Joe forsure embellishes his abilities on the mat and in the gym.
We disagree on some crucial points but you’ve done a good job illustrating your stance; Joe has convinced a lot of his gullible fans that he is the absolute mode of peak performance and leaves out major details (the one im harping on being that he rarely if ever trains). His average fan, even a few in here, seem to think Joe is just living the #jitslife and wrecking a bunch of blackbelts behind closed doors 3 days a week. Not the case, and hasn’t been since he got his blackbelt.

Like your comment he’s an “average+”’blackbelt.
Ummmm no. Not remotely close. Joe is 54 and hardly trains. The average blackbelt that does is and has consistently for years is way more in bjj shape and has the reflexes, momentum and sharpened skill.
I don’t know how many blackbelts you guys have access to, but even the “average” ones that consistently train are going to fucking demolish one that doesnt.

if this were about any other 54 year old blackbelt who is pretty much retired from BJJ and didnt even train consistently at Brown, you guys would agreee, but you have this image of Joe based on his own tales of himself that seems unrealistic.

I never said that Joe Rogan was an "average blackbelt"; that would be something silly for me to say because I don't have enough information to make that sort of assessment. And as far as you're concerned, apparently I've done a horrible job expressing myself since you are convinced I'm this hardcore Joe Rogan fan who sees him as the pinnacle of masculinity.

 

[dirtypablo]

I never said that Joe Rogan was an "average blackbelt"; that would be something silly for me to say because I don't have enough information to make that sort of assessment. And as far as you're concerned, apparently I've done a horrible job expressing myself since you are convinced I'm this hardcore Joe Rogan fan who sees him as the pinnacle of masculinity.

For all his comments about how 'biased' everyone else is, he seems completely unwilling to listen to what anyone else is saying and is completely stuck in his own head with his own pre-conceived notions about him. I, along with others have repeatedly said we're not fans of Joe, but he won't let go of this idea thats its just jre fanboys who are arguing with him. He's seriously either masterfully trolling or absolutely delusional.

 

[winterbike]

I never said that Joe Rogan was an "average blackbelt"; that would be something silly for me to say because I don't have enough information to make that sort of assessment. And as far as you're concerned, apparently I've done a horrible job expressing myself since you are convinced I'm this hardcore Joe Rogan fan who sees him as the pinnacle of masculinity.

Nah you've done a fine job. He strawmans and moves the goalposts left and right.

 

[ChickenBrother]

You’ve yet to answer my question as to where Joe, a Master’s 5 Blackbelt with chronic injuries who practically doesn’t train, is going to encounter problems.
A few people have said “uhhh purple belts”
Okay, why? What’s the difference between your average purple and average blue? Not much imo

LOL I know I'm feeding you at this point so props for playing this thread like a boss.

But I want to keep this thread going because it's hilarious so I'll respond unironically. You already know this, as would anyone with more than a few years training but as per above posts, there is a big step change between "average blue" and "average purple." If you're talking world class blues vs. world class purples, the difference is probably "not much" but average BJJers are hobbyists who don't compete. Many schools will promote a shitty grappler to blue but MOST will not promote a shitty grappler to purple. Purple means you're legit advanced skill level.

As per above, the overall pool of blues is diluted and brought down by random clowns who train for 1.5 years, wanted a participation trophy, got blue and quit. Even those who continue to train are very likely to quit at blue for various reasons including injuries, job, family stuff, etc. Way less than half the folks who made blue in the 4+ years I've been at my current school are still training BJJ.

You generally don't see that at purple. The average 2 stripe purple is fucking hardcore into BJJ, has a generally well-rounded game and knows how to counter other games. I've noticed that new BJJers with a strong wrestling or Judo base can often toy with random blues, but purple is kind of the "it all evens out" belt. A decent purple will give problems to a non-elite wrestler or Judoka on the mat (assuming size and age are remotely comparable), even if the wrestler or Judoka has excellent top and positional control. The purple will know how to counter that and threaten subs or sweeps.

 

[Da Speeit]

Nah you've done a fine job. He strawmans and moves the goalposts left and right.

I could be like you and just scurry off after making a terrible point that misses the mark completely.
“my coach who trains everyday is great so a blackbelt that hasnt in 10 years is equally as good”

you take an alphabrain before typing that one genius?

 

[Da Speeit]

I never said that Joe Rogan was an "average blackbelt"; that would be something silly for me to say because I don't have enough information to make that sort of assessment. And as far as you're concerned, apparently I've done a horrible job expressing myself since you are convinced I'm this hardcore Joe Rogan fan who sees him as the pinnacle of masculinity.

I mixed you up with the other guy

 

[Da Speeit]

For all his comments about how 'biased' everyone else is, he seems completely unwilling to listen to what anyone else is saying and is completely stuck in his own head with his own pre-conceived notions about him. I, along with others have repeatedly said we're not fans of Joe, but he won't let go of this idea thats its just jre fanboys who are arguing with him. He's seriously either masterfully trolling or absolutely delusional.

Says the guy who essentially turned “Joe would struggle with the average blue” to “JOE ROGAN WOULD BE A WHITEBELT IF HE STEPPED ON THE MAT”

Tons of people have agreed with my sentiment, even a few im still discussing this with, but you just cherry-pick the arguments that suit this unrealistic idea of Joe you have.

what sounds more realistic:
A 54 year old 5’5 blackbelt who hasn’t consistently trained since he was a brownbelt struggling with an average bluebelt

or

Joe Rogan tapped Rampage i saw it on tv bro!

 

[Da Speeit]

Jesus dude. Where are you getting this idea he doesn't train anymore?? Here's a video from 2020 - notice how he isn't talking past tense - he still actively trains.

He’s said multiple times he trains once a week if that because of his neck.

rolling at his house with his friend is not “training”

 

[No Skill Gap]

He's a legit black belt. But he's also a small size 54 years old guy

Good, big, athletic blue belts could give him trouble or at least make him work

I'm an average blue belt and my coach is smaller than me and he's also old. He always end up subbing me but I make him work

At blue belt most guys have some stuff that they are good at. I have a very good half guard / RDLR game against guys who try knee slides. It's not unbeatable, it's not bullet proof but I make purple belts, brown belts and black belts work a lot in those circumstances. Even more if they are older, weaker or smaller guys.

Is he "small size" he's like 190-210 pounds range. So despite his height and the memes about it, he's actually probably a fucking wrecking ball chode. He's like 5'6, 200 lbs. He's like a Matt Serra build. I wouldn't call him small by any means, he's not a HW or SHW sized guy in a gym, but he's bigger than most at that weight.

He weighed in at 205 lbs for his sober october podcast thing. So there's the evidence.

He's also not geriatric old, he's old but 50s right? And he's on HRT/TRT and probably other shit honestly. He's probably strong as fuck still if we're being honest.

 

[winterbike]

I could be like you and just scurry off after making a terrible point that misses the mark completely.
“my coach who trains everyday is great so a blackbelt that hasnt in 10 years is equally as good”

you take an alphabrain before typing that one genius?

I've made my point pretty clear, then you went full retard, so I expanded a bit. My coach was an example of a very injured 50+ year old man still kicking ass on the mats.

I'll repeat my first argument, since it seems that you're slow. 1. The average blue belt isn't that good. Like... at all. Not much mat time, not that fit. 2. Rogan is a juice monkey who has trained all his life and weighs 200lbs of muscle. On top of earning what seems to be a legit black belt. That's it, that's all there is to it.

Your whole ''only trains once a week'' line of thought is also complete garbage. If you've made it to black belt, keep training once a week, supplement with vitamin S, and stay very fit on top of it, you'll see a very small decrease in your skills over time. It doesn't take that much to maintain what you've spent 2 decades building.

 

[Da Speeit]

I've made my point pretty clear, then you went full retard, so I expanded a bit. My coach was an example of a very injured 50+ year old man still kicking ass on the mats.

I'll repeat my first argument, since it seems that you're slow. 1. The average blue belt isn't that good. Like... at all. Not much mat time, not that fit. 2. Rogan is a juice monkey who has trained all his life and weighs 200lbs of muscle. On top of earning what seems to be a legit black belt. That's it, that's all there is to it.

Your whole ''only trains once a week'' line of thought is also complete garbage. If you've made it to black belt, keep training once a week, supplement with vitamin S, and stay very fit on top of it, you'll see a very small decrease in your skills over time. It doesn't take that much to maintain what you've spent 2 decades building.

“Blue belt suck black belt good”
Compelling. Riveting.

 

[No Skill Gap]

How did this thread go on for 8...probably 9 pages after this reply?

Look, let's not be fucking retarded here. The average blue belt sucks. We're talking average here so let's not talk about Nicky Rod some sandbagged ADCC winner or any legit D1 wrestlers or standout d2-3 guys who happened to start training BJJ.

The average blue belt, again, relatively sucks. There are far more hobbyist old people (and we're only counting men here right...obviously) and unathletic nerds, and straight pussies who aren't physically/mentally tough - than there are rare extremely good blues. There are more 135-175lb people on planet earth than 225-300lbers (especially that are remotely lean).

If you scaled for "fat fuck factor" what is the average weight of a male in the US?

According to the CDC it's 5'9, 199 lbs. But that's with a 40.5 inch waist aka that average is fat clearly. So probably we're talking ~150 to ~170 pounds for the average male here in the US. 5'9, ~160 (who is in decent shape, or looking at lean mass more)

Rogan is ~190-205 lbs and on juice. He is also a black belt who unlike Demi Lovato (blue?) and Ashton Kutcher (brown), we know at least actually trained and live rolled with people and went hard. We have some evidence of this. So even if Rogan was truly a celeb-gifted BB at Purple level or undeserved Brown let's say, he's still going to absolutely fucking rape the average blue bet. He will beat 90-99% of blue belts out there. He's only losing to guys who are a combination of: bigger, more athletic, wrestlers, sandbagged, leg lockers, world-class

Which are what, like 1-5% of blue belts out there? He's going to absolute vaporize 90-99% of blue belts in the world right now. Somewhere in that range is the correct answer, so the average blue belt stands zero chance.

 

[Da Speeit]

Idk where you guys train that the average bluebelt “sucks” but its just not the case anymore, i’ve trained with hundreds of them at various gyms in various states and its just not the case. Maybe your bluebelts suck, maybe you sucked as a bluebelt but the vast amount of resources, instructionals, etc has made a big jump in the average blue.
That’s put conjecture. Stop living in 2009. In 2013 the berimbolo and footlocks were exotic advanced moves we needed to find a private instructor for, now they’re taught regularly in white belt classes.

what is “sucking”? Not having a guard? Not being able to pass? Not having a submission game?
Most bluebelts have a concept of guards they like play, a pass they like and a few subs they’re confident and adept at. Sorry. Not buying this “suck” thing.
Idk where the hell you guys are training or have been to but even a gracie gym i just dropped in to in a relatively small town had killer blues. I didn’t get tapped and hardly lost position, but i worked.

joe would have to work. If you guys are living in this binary of “who taps who” sure, Joe would tap 90% of bluebelts but in the real world where passing, takedowns, sweeps, grips, leg entanglements all exist, Joe’s not just passing someone’s rdlr hooks like a prime Galvao at will bc he’s on steroids. Silly

literally no one is saying Joe won’t “beat” the average bluebelt. That’s what OP needs the argument to be so he can feel right. The discussion is, Joe Rogan hopping out of his chair and walking into an academy to actually train is going to have to play his A game to keep up with the average bluebelt.

i see it happen all the time with blackbelts way better than Joe coming back from injury, time off, obligations etc. They tap and “win” against all of us, it’s just a slog and struggle and they HAVE to play their A game because they’re not as sharp as they once were. That’s reality, not some hypothetical where a 54 year old is just going to magically cut through everyone bc he talks himself up on a podcast and his friends say he’s strong

 

[No Skill Gap]

Idk where you guys train that the average bluebelt “sucks” but its just not the case anymore, i’ve trained with hundreds of them at various gyms in various states and its just not the case. Maybe your bluebelts suck, maybe you sucked as a bluebelt but the vast amount of resources, instructionals, etc has made a big jump in the average blue.
That’s put conjecture. Stop living in 2009. In 2013 the berimbolo and footlocks were exotic advanced moves we needed to find a private instructor for, now they’re taught regularly in white belt classes.

what is “sucking”? Not having a guard? Not being able to pass? Not having a submission game?
Most bluebelts have a concept of guards they like play, a pass they like and a few subs they’re confident and adept at. Sorry. Not buying this “suck” thing.
Idk where the hell you guys are training or have been to but even a gracie gym i just dropped in to in a relatively small town had killer blues. I didn’t get tapped and hardly lost position, but i worked.

joe would have to work. If you guys are living in this binary of “who taps who” sure, Joe would tap 90% of bluebelts but in the real world where passing, takedowns, sweeps, grips, leg entanglements all exist, Joe’s not just passing someone’s rdlr hooks like a prime Galvao at will bc he’s on steroids. Silly

literally no one is saying Joe won’t “beat” the average bluebelt. That’s what OP needs the argument to be so he can feel right. The discussion is, Joe Rogan hopping out of his chair and walking into an academy to actually train is going to have to play his A game to keep up with the average bluebelt.

i see it happen all the time with blackbelts way better than Joe coming back from injury, time off, obligations etc. They tap and “win” against all of us, it’s just a slog and struggle and they HAVE to play their A game because they’re not as sharp as they once were. That’s reality, not some hypothetical where a 54 year old is just going to magically cut through everyone bc he talks himself up on a podcast and his friends say he’s strong

Obviously you've displayed an autistic bias this entire thread, and I say that with all due respect...

But where do you possibly train?

Even at the best gyms and most competitive gyms in the world (which is not AVERAGE at all) I'd imagine Rogan still beats most blue belts there. He's still bigger and stronger than the average person, factoring in leanness significantly so. I'd imagine since he trained with Bravo and at 10th planet he would at least have some decent understanding and familiarity with the leg lock game as well and probably try to avoid it anyway.

No one here trains with Rogan so no one knows for sure exactly how good he is, including you. We've had one personal anecdote from someone, no reason to believe it was a lie. So I took the bait, but again where do you fucking train bro lmao.

I've trained at multiple gyms that were pretty competitive. I currently train at one that I'd say is a mix between hobbyist and very competitive. I'd say Rogan beats every blue belt in this gym I'd have to imagine. Do you train with Nicky Rod? Who also has been a purple for 2 years now I forgot about...lol.

The problem also is for your argument, which is wrong to begin with, is also that anyone very good at blue pretty much advances immediately. I don't think people sandbag blue belts now a days really do they...? But again, A V E R A G E was the bar set here.

 

[Da Speeit]

Obviously you've displayed an autistic bias this entire thread, and I say that with all due respect...

But where do you possibly train?

Even at the best gyms and most competitive gyms in the world (which is not AVERAGE at all) I'd imagine Rogan still beats most blue belts there. He's still bigger and stronger than the average person, factoring in leanness significantly so. I'd imagine since he trained with Bravo and at 10th planet he would at least have some decent understanding and familiarity with the leg lock game as well and probably try to avoid it anyway.

No one here trains with Rogan so no one knows for sure exactly how good he is, including you. We've had one personal anecdote from someone, no reason to believe it was a lie. So I took the bait, but again where do you fucking train bro lmao.

I've trained at multiple gyms that were pretty competitive. I currently train at one that I'd say is a mix between hobbyist and very competitive. I'd say Rogan beats every blue belt in this gym I'd have to imagine. Do you train with Nicky Rod? Who also has been a purple for 2 years now I forgot about...lol.

The problem also is for your argument, which is wrong to begin with, is also that anyone very good at blue pretty much advances immediately. I don't think people sandbag blue belts now a days really do they...? But again, A V E R A G E was the bar set here.

Dude you are so obsessed with”BEATING BEATING BEATING SMASH BEAT SMASH MAUL”

find one post where anyone said Rogan could not “beat” a bluebelt. The original point OP made this thread responding to is that Joe would struggle against the average bluebelt coming back to train regularly at the age of 54 with a myriad of injuries. That’s not crazy. Thinking he tapped Rampage in forreal in 2007 is crazy.

in 2021 we have no idea how good Rogan is. That doesn’t make the point you think it does. He’s not “bigger” than the average person. He’s 5’5. My
Coach is 5’8 190 and is definitely not “bigger than the average person”. Joe’s roided to the gills and bigger than the average 5’5 male

this is exactly what i’m talking about. You guys have this idea of Joe in your head that is not real and you’re telling me i’m not being realistic. It’s insane.