Running in mma is not requisite.

[Congo66]

Of course, running can give you incredible cardio : if you do a combination of sprinting and aerobic running, you might be ok with going the distance.
But I personally think swimming can give you supreme cardio too, as it ramps up your heart rate quite as much.
Of course, you ain't getting the benefits of standing upright or strenghtening your bones, but on the other hand you don't injure yourself and work upper body strength and flexibility.
Of course, you have to do it correctly. If you replace solid 5 miles runs and hill sprints by 10 sloppy laps, it ain't gonna work for you. But if you do some long swims with some accelerations inbetween, and end up your workout with a 10*50m butterfly, it can be great.

You gonna tell me that fighters who don't run because of fucked up knees tend to have shitty cardio (Conor, Rua etc.) I can name you as much fighters that don't run (like Usman) who have great cardio.
I think it has more to do with genetics: some guys (like Conor) are most fast twitch type of athletes (which give them this insane Ko power) while others are more slow twitch athletes (and thus are often pillow fisted).

From my own experience, I used to be a pretty good runner as a teenager/young adult (had a 35 min 10k).
This cardio carried well to mma and bjj, where I was a Diaz bros type of fighter, simply never getting tired... combat sports felt so easy cardiowise compared to running. Unfortunately, I had to stop running because of multiple knee injuries. So I replaced the 4 running sessions a week by 4 swimming sessions, and bought a heavy bag, in order to do 15 min dutch drills every day (like 1-2 left kick, non stop for 2 minutes)
In the first place I was completely despaired and thought I had lost my best option to have good cardio. But, now, after 10 years of not running AT ALL, I am glad this happened to me. My cardio is as good as it was (maybe slightly diminished because it's harder to get to those 190 bpm's by swimming, but it's very very infinitesimal), I have way more strength in the upper body, great shoulder flexibility (which helps to surive kimuras...), and feel injury free and loose. Moreover, the dutch drills gave me mma specific muscular endurance, which running wouldn't have given me.

To sum this up, there are many ways to work on cardio. Dutch drills combined with swimming are my favourite ones, but the rowing machine and bike are other good ones. Of course, I would like to squeeze in some hill sprints or a good 5k from time to time, because running remains a great way to work on cardio, but it isn't requisite.


Just my thoughts, what do you think about it?

The cardio you get from swimming is nothing like the same as you get from running.

I used to swim a lot and competed at a pretty decent level, I've swum against Olympians and beaten a British record holder (to be fair he had the backstroke record and I beat him at breaststroke but I still beat him).
This was 9 swimming sessions a week and 2 gym sessions. I could swim 1500m without thinking about it. They made us do a timed one in a training camp I went to and I did it in about 18 1/2 minutes which isn't great as triathletes swim quicker but as I was a 50-100m swimmer and it wasn't bad for a club swimmer.

Now from that you might assume I've got a good 20 minutes of stamina for anything but get me to run a 5k which should take a bit longer at 30 mins or so and I'd gas out and end up walking it.

Swimming is all upper body (and a very specific set of muscles) , running is all lower body. Sprint swimmers and sprinters on the track anent that different physically but everyone else is. There's no comparison between a 1500m runner and a 400m swimmer but their events last for about the same amount of time.

Now maybe swimming is a better fit for MMA but if you want to prepare for 25 minutes of standing up and moving about I think running is probably the better option. Swimming also only trains a very specific set of muscles. The action in swimming is the opposite to the action in punching.

If I were a fighter I'd run. Maybe a session a week in the pool would help to break things up but I wouldn't try and make it my main cardio training.

 

[Universal Champion]

Road biking is the shit.

 

[ZOD66]

Of course, running can give you incredible cardio : if you do a combination of sprinting and aerobic running, you might be ok with going the distance.
But I personally think swimming can give you supreme cardio too, as it ramps up your heart rate quite as much.
Of course, you ain't getting the benefits of standing upright or strenghtening your bones, but on the other hand you don't injure yourself and work upper body strength and flexibility.
Of course, you have to do it correctly. If you replace solid 5 miles runs and hill sprints by 10 sloppy laps, it ain't gonna work for you. But if you do some long swims with some accelerations inbetween, and end up your workout with a 10*50m butterfly, it can be great.

You gonna tell me that fighters who don't run because of fucked up knees tend to have shitty cardio (Conor, Rua etc.) I can name you as much fighters that don't run (like Usman) who have great cardio.
I think it has more to do with genetics: some guys (like Conor) are most fast twitch type of athletes (which give them this insane Ko power) while others are more slow twitch athletes (and thus are often pillow fisted).

From my own experience, I used to be a pretty good runner as a teenager/young adult (had a 35 min 10k).
This cardio carried well to mma and bjj, where I was a Diaz bros type of fighter, simply never getting tired... combat sports felt so easy cardiowise compared to running. Unfortunately, I had to stop running because of multiple knee injuries. So I replaced the 4 running sessions a week by 4 swimming sessions, and bought a heavy bag, in order to do 15 min dutch drills every day (like 1-2 left kick, non stop for 2 minutes)
In the first place I was completely despaired and thought I had lost my best option to have good cardio. But, now, after 10 years of not running AT ALL, I am glad this happened to me. My cardio is as good as it was (maybe slightly diminished because it's harder to get to those 190 bpm's by swimming, but it's very very infinitesimal), I have way more strength in the upper body, great shoulder flexibility (which helps to surive kimuras...), and feel injury free and loose. Moreover, the dutch drills gave me mma specific muscular endurance, which running wouldn't have given me.

To sum this up, there are many ways to work on cardio. Dutch drills combined with swimming are my favourite ones, but the rowing machine and bike are other good ones. Of course, I would like to squeeze in some hill sprints or a good 5k from time to time, because running remains a great way to work on cardio, but it isn't requisite.


Just my thoughts, what do you think about it?

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

The cardio you get from swimming is nothing like the same as you get from running.

I used to swim a lot and competed at a pretty decent level, I've swum against Olympians and beaten a British record holder (to be fair he had the backstroke record and I beat him at breaststroke but I still beat him).
This was 9 swimming sessions a week and 2 gym sessions. I could swim 1500m without thinking about it. They made us do a timed one in a training camp I went to and I did it in about 18 1/2 minutes which isn't great as triathletes swim quicker but as I was a 50-100m swimmer and it wasn't bad for a club swimmer.

Now from that you might assume I've got a good 20 minutes of stamina for anything but get me to run a 5k which should take a bit longer at 30 mins or so and I'd gas out and end up walking it.

Swimming is all upper body (and a very specific set of muscles) , running is all lower body. Sprint swimmers and sprinters on the track anent that different physically but everyone else is. There's no comparison between a 1500m runner and a 400m swimmer but their events last for about the same amount of time.

Now maybe swimming is a better fit for MMA but if you want to prepare for 25 minutes of standing up and moving about I think running is probably the better option. Swimming also only trains a very specific set of muscles. The action in swimming is the opposite to the action in punching.

If I were a fighter I'd run. Maybe a session a week in the pool would help to break things up but I wouldn't try and make it my main cardio training.

Swimming works way more muscle groups than running.
Moreover, as the action of swimming might be opposite to the action of punching, all this isometric strength carries well to grappling/wrestling.
There was a study that had been done, showing that elite runners' heart were stronger than elite swimmers' ones, but it was quite a slight difference.
Again, don't run only, do both, and if running is out of the equation, there are tons of ways to replace it.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

Well...

Fedor Emelianenko trains in Stary Oskol: "Every morning 15 km running then 5 km in the evening."
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/5/13/1470976/fedor-trains-in-stary-oskol-every

Sounds very Thailand-esque if you ask me.

Is Fedor great? Yes, of course.
Is running a semi-marathon every day the thing that made him great? Not sure
Had he replaced half on his running time by skill work, he would have been greater IMO.
MMA is so diverse and broad that you can never be good enough from a technical standpoint. So, technique should be number 1 priority: technique is even more important in mma than in one dimensional combat sports like wrestling or boxing where, at some point, it's the better athlete who often wins.

 

[TerryMCLOOPS]

"Cardio" right?

What I believe we're actually talking about is how somebody reacts to the feeling of exhaustion while facing physical adversity.

Your elliptical trainer and your complicated, bro science'd out 15 minute Phil Daru routine arent going to test your mind like a fight.

Some of you guys don't realize. A lot of things are happening 1 hour, 2 hour, 1 day, 3 days, 3 weeks, into these programs that dont happen after, for instance, a 20 minute jog.

"Oh I feel the same after 20 minutes rowing as I do 20 minutes running. Must be the same thing."

No, motherfucker. You didn't even open the box.

 

[BFoe]

Running is literally a leftover from when that’s all they had. Like the 1900s. There was no science involved, and the only real thing to improve cardio as far as they knew, was running.

Come on now. How much running did the GOAT do? And pick your GOAT. The answer will be the same.

Not much.

Fedor ran quite a lot, especially when he was preparing for Mirko. Still runs to this day.
I don’t mean that to imply that it’s necessary, I’m just saying.

edit: I see that other people have mentioned this. I hadn’t read the whole thread yet.

 

[Robotnickx]

Military burpees > jogging. I can run 10k sub 40 minutes daily but 100 military burpees just annihilate me. No idea why it's not a staple for mma fighters, not only is it great cardio it's cheap and works muscles applicable to mma.

 

[TerryMCLOOPS]

Military burpees > jogging. I can run 10k sub 40 minutes daily but 100 military burpees just annihilate me. No idea why it's not a staple for mma fighters, not only is it great cardio it's cheap and works muscles applicable to mma.

Check out Iron Wolf on youtube bro. Youll like his style.

 

[Robotnickx]

Check out Iron Wolf on youtube bro. Youll like his style.

I've been following Big Boys burpee challenge. Iron Wolf is doing hybrid burpees, military-style is where it's at.

No hopping around, no breaks, no water just down and up with a core check each rep.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

O

Of course, running can give you incredible cardio : if you do a combination of sprinting and aerobic running, you might be ok with going the distance.
But I personally think swimming can give you supreme cardio too, as it ramps up your heart rate quite as much.
Of course, you ain't getting the benefits of standing upright or strenghtening your bones, but on the other hand you don't injure yourself and work upper body strength and flexibility.
Of course, you have to do it correctly. If you replace solid 5 miles runs and hill sprints by 10 sloppy laps, it ain't gonna work for you. But if you do some long swims with some accelerations inbetween, and end up your workout with a 10*50m butterfly, it can be great.

You gonna tell me that fighters who don't run because of fucked up knees tend to have shitty cardio (Conor, Rua etc.) I can name you as much fighters that don't run (like Usman) who have great cardio.
I think it has more to do with genetics: some guys (like Conor) are most fast twitch type of athletes (which give them this insane Ko power) while others are more slow twitch athletes (and thus are often pillow fisted).

From my own experience, I used to be a pretty good runner as a teenager/young adult (had a 35 min 10k).
This cardio carried well to mma and bjj, where I was a Diaz bros type of fighter, simply never getting tired... combat sports felt so easy cardiowise compared to running. Unfortunately, I had to stop running because of multiple knee injuries. So I replaced the 4 running sessions a week by 4 swimming sessions, and bought a heavy bag, in order to do 15 min dutch drills every day (like 1-2 left kick, non stop for 2 minutes)
In the first place I was completely despaired and thought I had lost my best option to have good cardio. But, now, after 10 years of not running AT ALL, I am glad this happened to me. My cardio is as good as it was (maybe slightly diminished because it's harder to get to those 190 bpm's by swimming, but it's very very infinitesimal), I have way more strength in the upper body, great shoulder flexibility (which helps to surive kimuras...), and feel injury free and loose. Moreover, the dutch drills gave me mma specific muscular endurance, which running wouldn't have given me.

To sum this up, there are many ways to work on cardio. Dutch drills combined with swimming are my favourite ones, but the rowing machine and bike are other good ones. Of course, I would like to squeeze in some hill sprints or a good 5k from time to time, because running remains a great way to work on cardio, but it isn't requisite.


Just my thoughts, what do you think about it?

Really great post TS. I have kinda the same experience as yours, I was an avid runner 10 years ago, then I got surgery on my left knee in 2011 and I haven't been able to run since.

I now do cycling for my cardio and it works great as it is not as damaging to my knee, plus I can do it inside or outside and I enjoy the outside rides in spring and summer. My cardio isn't bad at this point but it isn't as great as before to be honest. Note that I have genetic predisposition to very good cardio.

I have a question about swimming x4 a week, is it ok on your shoulders ? I've known a guy who was in the national swimming team here that have permanent damage on his shoulders because of the amount of swimming he did.

Also you have some videos of good Dutch drills ? Thanks in advance bro.

 

[ConorsJock]

Sex is a great form of cardio. Low impact for the guy and you work multiple areas like ground and pound or off your back. Get yourself a BBW on top to increase the difficulty and soon you'll be throwing HWs with top control off like nothing.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

Military burpees > jogging. I can run 10k sub 40 minutes daily but 100 military burpees just annihilate me. No idea why it's not a staple for mma fighters, not only is it great cardio it's cheap and works muscles applicable to mma.

I had the best cardio of my life 10 year ago at age 22. Nobody I knew could out cardio me ever. I was training in a bjj gym were if you arrived 5mn late to the session, the instructor would make you 100 Burpees to have acces to the training. I got there late a lot. It was hellish but it gave me inhuman cardio. Good times when I still had a good knee haha

 

[Deleted member 571517]

Colby often did mountain running with Cameron Hanes,

and Cameron Hanes often went marathon/working out with David effing Goggins.

so yeah. i'll run hard if i'll be competing in MMA

 

[Zarate]

Just read the whole thread and nobody mentioned circuit training. It's the GOAT way for cardio, endurance and explosiveness.

Running is good - if you have the right balance. 80/20. 80% low intensity (slow pace running) and 20% high intensity (sprints!!).

Or just do 100 burpees with pull ups in 5 minutes and you never need to run again.

3x a week Circuit training (with rapid burpees of course)
3x a week running for 1 hour (80/20)
1x swimming for 1 hour (just for the variety)
1 hour of takedown defense youtube videos and you are the next MMA GOAT in your weight class (which is super heavyweight of course)

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

O


Really great post TS. I have kinda the same experience as yours, I was an avid runner 10 years ago, then I got surgery on my left knee in 2011 and I haven't been able to run since.

I now do cycling for my cardio and it works great as it is not as damaging to my knee, plus I can do it inside or outside and I enjoy the outside rides in spring and summer. My cardio isn't bad at this point but it isn't as great as before to be honest. Note that I have genetic predisposition to very good cardio.

I have a question about swimming x4 a week, is it ok on your shoulders ? I've known a guy who was in the national swimming team here that have permanent damage on his shoulders because of the amount of swimming he did.

Also you have some videos of good Dutch drills ? Thanks in advance bro.

For now, my shoulders are completely ok. Swimming actually gave me great shoulder mobility. Guys really need to crank the kimuras to get them on me.
However, note that I'm very very far from swimming as much as a national team swimmer. I usually swim around 12kms a week, those guys swim 15kms a day, 6 days a week (no wonder they are prone to shoulder injuries). Hence the necessity of having variety in your cardio work, to avoid injuries. Running 60 miles a week as a combat sport athlete is nuts, as swimming 50k would be. In the end of the day, you are a martial artist, not a swimmer, nor a runner, so try to use all tools under the sun, first to work other aspects of your conditioning, second to avoid doing the exact same motion over and over again, which will often lead to injury. Of course, running is great, but mixing things up is way better, and even if running is out, you aren't doomed to have Ngannou type of cardio.

Haven't watched that many videos, actually I drill the techniques the striking coach shows in order to be as efficient as possible doing them.
So basically, I ramp it up progressively, starting very slow, focusing on form, and giving it all at the end (if done with intensity, bag work is hard, I often reach the 185-190 bpms after a solid workout).
My favourite ones are the most basics actually:
1-2 -left leg kick
1-2 -check hook- right high kick
double jab -right leg kick
1-2 -switch- left body kick
I usually do three 5 min rounds (1:15 per drill *4 no rest between drills) with 1 min rest between rounds where I do shadow boxing.
Low impact, strengthens the chins, works your muscle memory as well as your muscular endurance, ramps up your heart rate, it's an amazing workout.

but here you go if you want a very good youtube video, i find this channel very good.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Running is literally a leftover from when that’s all they had. Like the 1900s. There was no science involved, and the only real thing to improve cardio as far as they knew, was running.

Come on now. How much running did the GOAT do? And pick your GOAT. The answer will be the same.

Not much.