Mighty mouse thinks Anthony Joshua beats Francis ngannou in mma

[Iroh]

I don't remember you ever saying that the division sucks.

Which proves my point that you aren't paying attention.

But let me help you out, here's the post
It's the bottom part, highlighted in green.

Yes, because Ngannou is a boxing heavy striker in MMA. It's a good stylistic match up for him. There is a good chance Ngannou could get KTFO if he isn't careful. I thinks it more about the mind behind the fighter. If Ngannou has the right coach. They could easily make the right game plan and camp to take out Joshua, IMO. But if you go with Ngannou's normal routine of search and destroy, he might very well get KTFO. Aspinall is a completely different fighter though. He is a much more cerebral fighter than Ngannou. And he is indeed more well rounded. Not just more wel rounded. He is easily one of the most well rounded HWs ever, IMO. That's not something to gloss over. The skill gap between Joshua and Aspinall in all faucets of MMA that aren't boxing isn't even a normal gap anymore, it's a super massive black hole. That skill difference Joshua isn't going to close at 34 years of age.

And that's not to say that Joshau couldn't become a great MMA fighter. HW does suck overall if you compare it to other divisions. So Joshua could definitely mop the floor with a whole lot of fat one/two dimensional HWs. Aspinall is a completely different beast from the vast majority of HWs though.

It just seems to me like you hold Aspinall in very high regard.

Correct. I also do Joshua, as a boxer.

He's well-rounded but there's a flipside to that. The guy already has losses on his record and he's yet to even become champion (I don't count interim titles). Aspinall isn't invincible.

And? This is not boxing where people get to pad their records and play all kinds of games to protect their records. Losses aren't that big of a deal. You lose, you learn and you grow.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Which proves my point that you aren't paying attention.

But let me help you out, here's the post
It's the bottom part, highlighted in green.

Correct. I also do Joshua, as a boxer.

And? This is not boxing where people get to pad theor records and play all kinds of games to protect their records. Losses aren't that bog of a deal. You lose, you learn and you grow.

No, I just didn't remember you saying that. Fair enough. In MMA losses are much more acceptable but they also tell you something. What they tell you is that particular fighter has flaws that have already been successfully exploited. Again, Aspinall isn't even a real champ in the UFC yet and he's already taken L's.

Boxers often do have padded records but Joshua isn't one of them. He has the deepest resume in the division by far. Wilder has a ton of padding on his record though. Lots of cans on there.

 

[Iroh]

No, I just didn't remember you saying that. Fair enough. In MMA losses are much more acceptable but they also tell you something. What they tell you is that particular fighter has flaws that have already been successfully exploited. Again, Aspinall isn't even a real champ in the UFC yet and he's already taken L's.

Again, you lose and you learn. Meaning you learn what your flaws are and you improve on those flaws, which makes you better. The idea that this matters for Aspinall is just insane to me. I really don't want to waste any time on explaining how insane I think it is.

Boxers often do have padded records but Joshua isn't one of them. He has the deepest resume in the division by far. Wilder has a ton of padding on his record though. Lots of cans on there.

Doesn't matter though when going into MMA. Even Ali couldn't even deal with Inoki laying on his back, lol. Ali was a better boxer than Joshua and Inoki is nowhere near as skilled as Aspinall.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Again, you lose and you learn. Meaning you learn what your flaws are and you improve on those flaws, which makes you better. The idea that this matters for Aspinall is just insane to me. I really don't want to waste any time on explaining how insane I think it is.

Doesn't matter though when going into MMA. Even Ali couldn't even deal with Inoki laying on his back, lol. Ali was a better boxer than Joshua and Inoki is nowhere near as skilled as Aspinall.

Losses matter, bud. If they didn't winners wouldn't be called winners or undefeated which is the ultimate goal. If Aspinall ever becomes the undisputed champ he'll have a target on his back. It'll be even more difficult for him to consistently win. He'll take more losses along the way as a result.

Did you seriously just mention Ali vs Inoki? Now that's insane. It was a meaningless exhibition that took place a half century ago. Ali may've been a better boxer but he was nowhere near as dangerous as AJ is. He wasn't a puncher or a great finisher. AJ is both not to mention a hell of a lot bigger than Ali was.

 

[Iroh]

Losses matter, bud. If they didn't winners wouldn't be called winners or undefeated which is the ultimate goal. If Aspinall ever becomes the undisputed champ he'll have a target on his back. It'll be even more difficult for him to consistently win. He'll take more losses along the way as a result.

Ugh... You are so fucking tiresome to have a discussion with, buddeh. No offense. But you just keep intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreting what I am saying. I'm not saying losses don't matter at all. I'm saying in Aspinall's specific case it doesn't matter. He has two legit losses early on in his career. It's not that big of a deal in the early stages when you are still mostly learning the game. It's when you are a more finished product later on in your career that a loss could indicate certain limits to a fighter's capabilities.

Did you seriously just mention Ali vs Inoki? Now that's insane. It was a meaningless exhibition that took place a half century ago. Ali may've been a better boxer but he was nowhere near as dangerous as AJ is. He wasn't a puncher or a great finisher. AJ is both not to mention a hell of a lot bigger than Ali was.

Oh yeah, you know the exhibition thing is just theatrics, right? They can just fight , you know. They just want to protect their image and make it easier on the commision to sanction the fight. In essence it's not really a big difference between a sanction fight or a sanctuoned exhibition match.

Jake Paul vs Tyson will be an exhibition, but I still fully expect Tyson to try to brutalize Jake.

Not to mention Ali wanted all kinds of rules and stipulations to limit what Inoki could do, because he knew how much more out of his depth he would be, the closer it would be to anything goes.

 

[Iroh]

@Kovalev's "Man Bag" you know Floyd vs Tenshin was an exhibition, right? Didn't stop Floyd from K his ass TFO!

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Ugh... You are so fucking tiresome to have a discussion with, buddeh. No offense. But you just keep intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreting what I am saying. I'm not saying losses don't matter at all. I'm saying in Aspinall's specific case it doesn't matter. He has two legit losses early on in his career. It's not that big of a deal in the early stages when you are still mostly learning the game. It's when you are a more finished product later on in your career that a loss could indicate certain limits to a fighter's capabilities.



Oh yeah, you know the exhibition thing is just theatrics, right? They can just fight , you know. They just want to protect their image and make it easier on the commision to sanction the fight. In essence it's not really a big difference between a sanction fight or a sanctuoned exhibition match.

Jake Paul vs Tyson will be an exhibition, but I still fully expect Tyson to try to brutalize Jake.

Not to mention Ali wanted all kinds of rules and stipulations to limit what Inoki could do, because he knew how much more out of his depth he would be, the closer it would be to anything goes.

Aspinall is still untested in some ways. For example, he's never gone the distance. His longest fights have gone less than 10 minutes. So, it's possible that someone could drag him into deep waters and drown him.

Exhibitions aren't sanctioned. Ali vs Inoki wasn't sanctioned. It was a special rules match-up. A friendly exhibition. Nothing more. Some exhibitions can be serious, others aren't. Mike Tyson vs Roy Jones wasn't. Neither tried to seriously hurt the other. Their intentions were clear and they both had mutual respect for each other.

 

[Iroh]

Aspinall is still untested in some ways. For example, he's never gone the distance. His longest fights have gone less than 10 minutes. So, it's possible that someone could drag him into deep waters and drown him.

Yes, but Joshua is not the one to drag him into deep waters. Lol. It's not relevant to the discussion, but for some reason you think it is. You are just throwing any argument out there without really thinking it through it seems to me.

Exhibitions aren't sanctioned. Ali vs Inoki wasn't sanctioned. It was a special rules match-up.

A friendly exhibition. Nothing more

Yes, because Ali didn't dare to do a real fight, he just wanted a match where he could enjoy as much protection as he could get. Because he is a boxer who would be out of his depth in a real fight, just to repeat what I already said in my last post. But Ithis time you will remember, right?

. Some exhibitions can be serious, others aren't. Mike Tyson vs Roy Jones wasn't. Neither tried to seriously hurt the other. Their intentions were clear and they both had mutual respect for each other.

Indeed, Tyson could have finished Roy, IMO. But treated it more as an experiment, which was pretty badass. But they could have gone fully at it if they wanted. You can treat a sanctioned fight the same way, you can go all out or you don't if you for example respect your opponent too much and/or are friends with him. So there isn't that much real difference between the two.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yes, but Joshua is not the one to drag him into deep waters. Lol. It's not relevant to the discussion, but for some reason you think it is. You are just throwing any argument out there without really thinking it through it seems to me.




Yes, because Ali didn't dare to do a real fight, he just wanted a match where he could enjoy as much protection as he could get. Because he is a boxer who would be out of his depth in a real fight, just to repeat what I already said in my last posts. But Ithis time you will remember, right?




Indeed, Tyson could have finished Roy, IMO. But treated it more as an expirment, which was pretty badass. But they could have gone fully at it if they wanted. You can treat a sanctioned fight the same way, you can go all out or you don't if you for example respect your opponent too much and/or are friends with him. So there isn't that much real difference between the two.

You don't know that. AJ could very well drag him into deep waters with adequate MMA training. He's fought at a standard pace for 36 minutes on multiple occasions.

Ali competed against Inoki before MMA was even around. The term 'Mixed Martial Arts' hadn't even been coined yet. That's how far back you're going and for a friendly exhibition that was ultimately meaningless no less.

I think we're done here. I must say that it's pretty pathetic to have to reach that far lol.

 

[Iroh]

You don't know that. AJ could very well drag him into deep waters with adequate MMA training. He's fought at a standard pace for 36 minutes on multiple occasions.

It's not his cardio that is the issue. It's the skills and he isn't getting the skills in this life time to drag him into deep waters

Not to mention, boxing cardio is completely different than grappling cardio, which you already knew and intentionally ignored, or didn't know which would make you unfit to have this discussion.

Ali competed against Inoki before MMA was even around. The term 'Mixed Martial Arts' hadn't even been coined yet. That's how far back you're going and for a friendly exhibition that was ultimately meaningless no less.

Yes, but plain fighting had been around for as long as complex life forms have been around. You don't need MMA to figure out the simple idea of anything goes, or nearly anything goes, the latter being the principle that MMA is based on.

It was "friendly" because Ali wanted it to be, Inoki was down for whatever. It shows that even Ali knew how limited he is, despite you not understanding how limited boxers really are. Boxers themself know though.

I think we're done here. I must say that it's pretty pathetic to have to reach that far lol.

That:s because you completely ignore the point for which I used that argument. But like I said your mind is closed and is clearly invested in holding onto your narrative no matter what.

Guess the username just fits your strong bias towards boxers. Oh well.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It's not his cardio that is the issue. It's the skills and he isn't getting the skills in this life time to drag him into deep waters

Not to mention, boxing cardio is completely different than grappling cardio, which you already knew and intentionally ignored, or didn't know which would make you unfit to have this discussion.



Yes, but plain fighting had been around for as long as complex life forms have been around. You don't need MMA to figure out the simple idea of anything goes, or nearly anything goes, the latter being the principle that MMA is based on.

It was "friendly" because Ali wanted it to be, Inoki was down for whatever. It shows that even Ali knew how limited he is, despite you not understanding how limited boxers really are. Boxers themself know though.



That:s because you completely ignore the point for which I used that argument. But like I said your mind is closed and is clearly invested in holding onto your narrative no matter what.

Guess the username just fits your strong bias towards boxers. Oh well.

Aspinall is a 2 round fighter until proven otherwise. That's what the record shows. Boxing is more cardiovascularly intensive than MMA. They fight at a higher pace and there's less breaks in the action. There's no wall & stall or lay & pray. Ask Conor. He was already showing fatigue after 4 or 5 rounds against Floyd. Conor has never shown that level of fatigue so early in MMA (12-15 minutes).

MMA has always been around in one form or another, like pankration at the ancient Olympics, but it's not just mixed combat. MMA has specific rules, regulations, and so on. Ali vs Inoki wasn't actually an MMA bout. At best it was a special rules pseudo-MMA exhibition bout. It wasn't sanctioned.

It's clear that you're very biased towards MMA. Just look at how many strong assumptions you've already made about how AJ would do. So, don't throw stones in that glass house of yours. It's not wise.

 

[hector domino]

The whole "boxers would kill mma fighters with 4 oz gloves" thing was dismantled decades ago. It's funny that people are still saying things like this in 2024. What makes it more silly is that boxing isn't even the most effective striking art for mma; high-level kickboxers would absolutely RUIN a professional boxer (Joshua included).

If you said that Joshua was going to take a full year or two exclusively dedicated to mma, maybe you'd have an argument. But even then, there's no guarantee that he'd develop competent TDD, or that he'd be able to adjust his stance for mma (e.g., shift his weight off the front foot, lower the hips for TDD, holding his hands differently for defense because of the smaller gloves).

Just because someone is great in one combat sport doesn't mean they'd successfully transition to mma. For every wrestler, kickboxer, or bjj player who successfully transitions to mma, there are 10 who flamed out.

Nah I say In 1 or 2 fight camps with MMA training and Joshua would devastate Ngannou worst than in boxing. In lower weights I would agree but Heavyweight have fuckin Black Beast in the rankings and no way an A-LEVEL athlete like Joshua does not wash out the heavyweight division. I can see Islam dogwalking Canelo I can see Edwards slice through Bivol but Heavyweight aint it. It sucks

 

[Iroh]

Aspinall is a 2 round fighter until proven otherwise. That's what the record shows. Boxing is more cardiovascularly intensive than MMA. They fight at a higher pace and there's less breaks in the action. There's no wall & stall or lay & pray. Ask Conor. He was already showing fatigue after 4 or 5 rounds against Floyd. Conor has never shown that level of fatigue so early in MMA (12-15 minutes).

MMA has always been around in one form or another, like pankration at the ancient Olympics, but it's not just mixed combat. MMA has specific rules, regulations, and so on. Ali vs Inoki wasn't actually an MMA bout. At best it was a special rules pseudo-MMA exhibition bout. It wasn't sanctioned.

It's clear that you're very biased towards MMA. Just look at how many strong assumptions you've already made about how AJ would do. So, don't throw stones in that glass house of yours. It's not wise.

Bruh... You just exposed yourself as a noob/casual. Let me ask you something have you ever grappled? And if so, what was it and how long did you do that for?

What I said is it's a different kind of cardio, you clearly aren't aware of it. Yet you still are pretending they are comparable by saying one is more intensive. They aren't the same. You can have a great boxing cardio, but you will tire extremely quickly if you had to grapple a good grappler. Same with a grappler who has phenomenal cardio for grappling will gas quickly if he'd have to strike intensively for a prolongued amount of time. It's just a completely different attribute.

MMA hasn't been around, but fighting has been around. MMA is just an approximation of what real fighting would be like, but still with a limited amount of rules to appease the public. However all of this is not relevant anymore to the point. It's just semenatics. The point was, which you keep ignoring, Ali knew he had to cover himself with rules that would protect him, because he was self-aware enough to know his weaknesses were that significant that he needed them to be protected by the rules. You will again ignore this, but I can at least try.

Bruh, I make strong assumprions because I have been training in martial arts since I was 7 and have been following all kinds of combat sports also almost all my life. I'm not biased towards MMA, I'm just realistic about it. Anybody who isn't particularly attached to one specific combat sport and enjoys all of combat, should be able to see the gigantic differences between boxing and MMA and the enormous disadvantages a boxer has when going to MMA. Those disadvantages aren't remedied with a few years of training. Not when going up against the best of the sport, and not when you sre already 34.

And to further iterate that I am not biased, before I watched MMA I was a huge K-1 fan. But I've seen how kickboxers usually do in MMA and I have no illusions about how my favorite kickboxers would do in MMA. Even with a few years of preperation. I actually am one of the few people who keeps reminding people that Poatan's success is strongly dependent on him having been protected by the match makers. Dude has been training for a good while now and his grappling still looks very rudimentary whenever we get a glimpse of it.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Bruh... You just exposed yourself as a noob/casual. Let me ask you something have you ever grappled? And if so, what was it and how long did you do that for?

What I said is it's a different kind of cardio, you clearly aren't aware of it. Yet you still are pretending they are comparable by saying one is more intensive. They aren't the same. You can have a great boxing cardio, but you will tire extremely quickly if you had to grapple a good grappler. Same with a grappler who has phenomenal cardio for grappling will gas quickly if he'd have to strike intensively for a prolongued amount of time. It's just a completely different attribute.

MMA hasn't been around, but fighting has been around. MMA is just an approximation of what real fighting would be like, but still with a limited amount of rules to appease the public. However all of this is not relevant anymore to the point. It's just semenatics. The point was, which you keep ignoring, Ali knew he had to cover himself with rules that would protect him, because he was self-aware enough to know his weaknesses were that significant that he needed them to be protected by the rules. You will again ignore this, but I can at least try.

Bruh, I make strong assumprions because I have been training in martial arts since I was 7 and have been following all kinds of combat sports also almost all my life. I'm not biased towards MMA, I'm just realistic about it. Anybody who isn't particularly attached to one specific combat sport and enjoys all of combat, should be able to see the gigantic differences between boxing and MMA and the enormous disadvantages a boxer has when going to MMA. Those disadvantages aren't remedied with a few years of training. Not when going up against the best of the sport, and not when you sre already 34.

And to further iterate that I am not biased, before I watched MMA I was a huge K-1 fan. But I've seen how kickboxers usually do in MMA and I have no illusions about how my favorite kickboxers would do in MMA. Even with a few years of preperation. I actually am one of the few people who keeps reminding people that Poatan's success is strongly dependent on him having been protected by the match makers. Dude has been training for a good while now and his grappling still looks very rudimentary whenever we get a glimpse of it.

Grappling takes plenty of cardio but MMA isn't grappling. It's merely one aspect of it. There are plenty of MMA fights that contain little to no grappling at all. There's also grappling strength and I know all about it. I live in Pennsylvania and wrestled at Penn State. We're only the top wrestling state in the nation.

You think MMA is more cardio demanding because you can grapple in the sport? Think again. Here's the vice president of the UFC Performance Institute, Duncan French, educating you on the cardiovascular demands between MMA & boxing.

“Importantly, the biggest difference between boxing and MMA is the effort-to-pause ratio, which essentially defines the tempo of a fight,” says French. “In boxing, the effort-to-pause ratio averages 3-1, but in professional MMA that ratio is flipped to 1-4, primarily due to the impact of grappling and ground fighting.”

“The bottom line is that boxers tend to spend more time working, and less time regrouping, forcing McGregor to condition differently for the fight. For McGregor, each round will be shorter, but probably more effortful.”
Big difference between boxing and MMA is ‘effort-to-pause ratio’

 

[Iroh]

Grappling takes plenty of cardio but MMA isn't grappling. It's merely one aspect of it. There are plenty of MMA fights that contain little to no grappling at all. There's also grappling strength and I know all about it. I live in Pennsylvania and wrestled at Penn State. We're only the top wrestling state in the nation.

You think MMA is more cardio demanding because you can grapple in the sport? Think again. Here's the vice president of the UFC Performance Institute, Duncan French, educating you on the cardiovascular demands between MMA & boxing.

“Importantly, the biggest difference between boxing and MMA is the effort-to-pause ratio, which essentially defines the tempo of a fight,” says French. “In boxing, the effort-to-pause ratio averages 3-1, but in professional MMA that ratio is flipped to 1-4, primarily due to the impact of grappling and ground fighting.”

“The bottom line is that boxers tend to spend more time working, and less time regrouping, forcing McGregor to condition differently for the fight. For McGregor, each round will be shorter, but probably more effortful.”
Big difference between boxing and MMA is ‘effort-to-pause ratio’

Jesus, you are dense. I can literally tell you something is not the point, rather this other thing is the point. Yet you will still argue the same point regardless. Have nice day, bud. 3rd time the charm. This is for realsies. I'm out

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Jesus, you are dense. I can literally tell you something is not the point, rather this other thing is the point. Yet you will still argue the same point regardless. Have nice day, bud. 3rd time the charm. This is for realsies. I'm out

Don't be embarrassed. You just learned something important. Have a good one though. Be safe.

 

[Iroh]

Don't be embarrassed. You just learned something important. Have a good one though. Be safe.

This merits a quick last response though because we finally agree, I have indeed learned something important which is not to have a serious discussion with you again. <45> <Lmaoo>

And thanks, you be safe too, bud.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

This merits a quick last response though because we finally agree, I have indeed learned something important which is not to have a serious discussion with you again. <45> <Lmaoo>

And thanks, you be safe too, bud.

The feeling is mutual my friend. Enjoy UFC 300! I think it'll really deliver.

 

[YourBoss]

Again, you lose and you learn. Meaning you learn what your flaws are and you improve on those flaws, which makes you better. The idea that this matters for Aspinall is just insane to me. I really don't want to waste any time on explaining how insane I think it is.



Doesn't matter though when going into MMA. Even Ali couldn't even deal with Inoki laying on his back, lol. Ali was a better boxer than Joshua and Inoki is nowhere near as skilled as Aspinall.

useless argument. in mma you are not allowed to play guard like inoki. had that fight been under mma rules it would have to be either standing or inoki forcing ali to the ground. but guess what. inoki was not able to take him down hence why he never attempted it. so if that fight was under mma rules, its standing and ali would kick inokis ass.

 

[Iroh]

useless argument. in mma you are not allowed to play guard like inoki. had that fight been under mma rules it would have to be either standing or inoki forcing ali to the ground. but guess what. inoki was not able to take him down hence why he never attempted it. so if that fight was under mma rules, its standing and ali would kick inokis ass.

Nah, not the original MMA rules. Rules keep on changing and also change depending on the where it takes place. However, you are also missing the point. It's not about who wins, it's about how reliant boxers are on rules to protect them and how terrible they are at dealing with elements of fighting outside of their comfort zone.

And indeed he would not have been able to take Ali down, because these were the rules. Lol

A list of restrictions was imposed on Inoki. He would not be allowed to throw, grapple or tackle Ali and could not land any kicks unless he had one knee on the mat. Ali's camp also demanded that the rules not be made public before the fight.

.