Elections 1st Republican Presidential Primary Debate (8/23)

[Gutter Chris]

Lol, what do you think this is? A democracy?

I keep hoping.

I keep hoping someone sane who thinks the way I do about the world will just magically possess one of these people. Like holy shit I actually have representation!

I didn't like any of them. And my votes up for grabs. All that's certain at the moment is I'm not voting for Biden or Trump

 

[DavidsGhost]

Watch Biden asked on the debate stage to raise his hand if he flew in on a private jet.

Biden is the biggest liar of all time


Trump would be, but he gets a pass since his brain is actually just a hamburger

 

[luckyshot]

I keep hoping.

I keep hoping someone sane who thinks the way I do about the world will just magically possess one of these people. Like holy shit I actually have representation!

I didn't like any of them. And my votes up for grabs. All that's certain at the moment is I'm not voting for Biden or Trump

The thing that is so fucking insane to me is that there are no red states and blue states when there are ballot measures.

Every state is:
-- Pro medicare
-- Pro unions
-- Pro living wage
-- Pro choice
-- Pro legalized pot
Etc.

When these things actually get put directly on the ballot, even in blood red states, they pass.

So, how do we get to where we are?

 

[koquerelle]

Takeaways from the first Republican presidential primary debate

With Donald Trump skipping the first 2024 Republican presidential primary debate, eight of his primary rivals – most of them men wearing ties similar to the bright red one regularly worn by the former president – brawled for second-place status Wednesday night.

Vivek Ramaswamy, the 38-year-old entrepreneur and first-time candidate, was alongside Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in the center of the stage – and he was the central figure for much of the night. Ramaswamy brawled with former Vice President Mike Pence over his experience, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley over foreign policy, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie over Trump, and more.

And because he has positioned himself as a defender of Trump, Ramaswamy was, at times, a stand-in for the former president, who momentarily ceded the stage Wednesday night but will take it back Thursday when he turns himself in at the Fulton County jail in Georgia as he faces election subversion charges.

Trump’s decision to skip the debate meant several candidates who have positioned themselves as strident critics of the former president were denied opportunities to directly confront him. Christie, who Ramaswamy said is running a campaign “based on vengeance and grievance” against Trump, spent more time brawling with the entrepreneur than the former president. Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson went long stretches of the debate without being acknowledged.

The debate played out in front of a rowdy crowd of about 4,000 people at the Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee. The crowd’s reactions – including jeers and boos when candidates criticized Trump – at times drowned out the Fox News moderators.

Here are six takeaways from the first 2024 Republican presidential primary debate:

Taking shots at Ramaswamy
With Trump absent from Wednesday’s debate, the the early target of most of the debate participants was not DeSantis or South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott or any candidate who has ever held elected office before. It was political newcomer Vivek Ramaswamy. The first jab at the entrepreneur came from Pence: “Vivek, you recently said a president can’t do everything. Well, I’ve got news for you, Vivek. I’ve been in the hallway. I’ve been in the West Wing. The president of the United States has to confront every crisis facing America.”

That spurred a heated back-and-forth and light name-calling between the two candidates. Later, in the first bit of the debate, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie compared Ramaswamy’s answers to something cranked out by ChatGPT. Christie then capitalized on Ramaswamy rhetorically asking what a little-known guy with a funny name was doing on the debate stage by pointing out that the quip sounded awfully like Barack Obama’s old stump line about him being “a skinny kid with a funny name who believes that America has a place for him.”

The early pile-on at Ramaswamy is surprising. He’s new to politics. At the same time, recent polling has shown him rising in the primary polls over other candidates who have spent, in some cases, decades in electoral politics.

DeSsantis doesn’t stand out
DeSantis set the expectation that he would be the focal point of Wednesday’s debate. He was anything but.

He certainly didn’t speak the most. Though his campaign suggested his Republican opponents would have their “knives out” for DeSantis, he wasn’t on the receiving end of many attacks. And at a key moment – when the candidates were asked to raise their hands if they would support Trump if he is convicted in a court of law – DeSantis peeked around the stage to see how everyone else had responded before he half heartedly put up his right palm.

DeSantis, who earned the center-stage spot, appeared content to exit Milwaukee without risking his second-place standing in the polls. But he also did little to erase the impression, confirmed by polling, that he is closer to the rest of the pack than in a tier with Trump or in one of his own.

When he spoke, DeSantis largely leaned on rehearsed lines familiar to anyone who has heard him speak in recent months. Just as he does on the campaign trail, he opened the debate by declaring “Our country is in decline” and “We need to send Joe Biden back to his basement.” He joked about Hunter Biden’s paintings – a regular punchline when he visits early nominating states. He said under a DeSantis administration, people who cross into the United States illegally would end up “stone cold dead,” a promise he has repeated for weeks.

At times, moderators attempted to move DeSantis off his practiced remarks. When DeSantis touted his record on crime by declaring it was at a 50-year low in Florida, Fox’s Brett Baier interjected that crime was up in Miami. DeSantis clarified: “Well, statewide.” Asked if he would support a federal six-week abortion ban, DeSantis talked about his electoral victory in Florida. Pressed to give an answer, he replied as he has for weeks, by refusing to rule it out or get behind it.

DeSantis attempted to shed his reputation as a cold and stiff debater by forcefully speaking directly to Americans at home, often pointing directly at the camera, and by sharing anecdotes from an abortion survivor and a mother whose son died from fentanyl poisoning. He shared his biography – thrice mentioning his military service and talking repeatedly about his young family – an acknowledgment that voters may not yet know his story beyond the cultural clashes and Covid-19 policies that have made him a Republican star.

Drawing distinctions over abortion
Some candidates supported a 15-week federal abortion ban. Some said they were against efforts to pass a nationwide ban. And no one clearly stated they would sign a six-week federal abortion ban – even if they’d approved such laws as governors.

More than a year after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, abortion policy is still a tricky issue for Republican candidates caught between the need to demonstrate their anti-abortion bona fides and address the realities of the political landscape, where voters have rejected stringent abortion restrictions and the candidates who backed them.

At one end of the spectrum stood Haley, who sparred with Pence over the possibility of passing a federal ban. Haley called on the other candidates to “be honest” with the American people about the low odds of getting 60 senators to overcome a filibuster and approve a federal abortion ban. She instead pushed for consensus on issues such as encouraging adoption and allowing doctors and nurses with moral objections to the procedure the right not to perform them.

“Consensus is the opposite of leadership,” Pence said in response. But even Pence wasn’t willing to go further than endorsing a 15-week federal abortion ban, the cutoff offered in a bill South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham introduced last year.

“A 15-week ban is an idea whose time has come,” Pence said. Scott also backed the 15-week ban onstage.

Two candidates who have signed six-week abortion bans into law – DeSantis and North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum – stopped short of saying they would do the same nationally. Burgum said his opposition to a national ban stems from his support for the 10th Amendment. DeSantis, asked if he would sign a federal six-week ban, simply said he would “stand on the side of life.”

“I understand Wisconsin will do it different than Texas,” DeSantis said. “But I will support the cause of life as governor and as president.”

DeSantis tries, but fails, to duck January 6 question after being pressed by Pence
When moderators asked DeSantis whether Pence was right to reject Trump’s pressure campaign to overturn the 2020 presidential election, the Florida governor attempted to dodge – ignoring what he’d been asked and complaining about the “weaponization” of the federal government.

But Pence dug in, putting DeSantis on the spot.

“The American people deserve to know whether everyone on this stage agrees that I kept my oath to the Constitution that day. There’s no more important duty, so answer the question,” he said.

“Mike did his duty. I’ve got no beef with him,” DeSantis said, attempting to quickly move on.

The moment illustrated how cautious the Florida governor is of alienating Trump’s base.

Christie, though, mocked DeSantis’ answer, calling it “a pre-canned speech.”

He said Pence “deserves not grudging credit; he deserves our thanks as Americans.”

Haley leans towards the general election
Haley, the former South Carolina governor and US ambassador to the United Nations under Trump, brought onto the stage Wednesday a message that was geared more directly for a general electorate than those of her rivals.

What’s less clear is whether she did enough to impress Republican voters to get there.

Haley balked at a federal abortion ban, saying the reality of the Senate’s 60-vote threshold to break the filibuster and the need for a House majority means “consensus” is necessary on the issue. She also said contraception should be available to all women.

She was one of the few candidates to acknowledge that climate change is real.

She was the first to criticize Trump by name, pointing to rising spending during his presidency. She praised Pence’s actions on January 6, 2021, despite Trump’s pressure on the former vice president to seek to overturn the 2020 election result. Haley also called her former boss the “most disliked politician in America.”

“We cannot win a general election that way,” she said.

And she hammered Ramaswamy during an exchange over Russia, as Haley defended the United States’ support for Ukraine.

“You have no foreign policy experience, and it shows,” she said during one of the night’s most animated exchanges.

Scott sticks to Mr. Nice Guy routine
The plan for Scott going into the debate was to stick with his “kill ‘em with kindness” attitude. For the first part of the debate, he did that. The problem was that approach kept him out of most of the exchanges. While the other candidates were debating and skirmishing over abortion, Ukraine or whether Trump should be pardoned, Scott wasn’t really in it. He did try and insert himself with warnings about the “weaponization” of the federal government and crime in America. But all of his comments and arguments faded into the background as candidates piled on Ramaswamy or Christie praised Pence for his actions on January 6, 2021.

When Scott did get a chance to weigh in on the southern border, illegal immigration and fentanyl, he offered a long answer about how important and easy it would be to finish Trump’s border wall.

“As the next president of the United States, I will make that border wall complete,” Scott said, extending each word in that concluding sentence. He paused for applause. There was none.

Ahead of the debate, Republican strategists argued that this was the approach Scott wanted to take because it’s his authentic self. The question now is if the South Carolina senator will stick with it going forward.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/23/politics/takeaways-republican-debate/index.html

 

[pinger]

"Everything is fucking terrible, but only I can fix it. I have no realistic ideas or proposals but undoing every bit of progress that any Democrat has ever made. So vote for me." - Every Republican Ever

You forgot "abolish every social service department then complain that the government doesn't work. Privatise it all out to your donors for that sweet bribe money and walk away from the steaming Trainwreck".

 

[chardog]

How do you watch the full debate? Missed it….

 

[DEVILsSON]

GOP better pray Haley or Christie finds a way to win the nomination because any Democrat will beat Trump. Honestly the only one I'd really not want to win the primary is Vivek because he's just too extreme in all his positions. He's also unknown and has no experience.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

just caught up on the debate.

ron:

- ron managed to stay afloat but talked like a nodding automaton. his eyes didn't look very clear and i don't think he can match wits with aggressive talkers when it counts. he didn't really get attacked and didn't do much attacking

- i'm biased and don't like pence but he and some of the others (like haley) managed to drown out vivek more than i would have liked

- i think vivek got the biggest 'oh snap' audience reaction after zinging crisco about running with vengeance

- vivek got the loudest cheers in the closing 30 second speech. great showing for his first time, but he also let haley and pence push him around. you can tell they didn't really respect him and wanted to shut him up. this doesn't mean vivek lost on merit, but he needs to be more assertive and can't let his opponents do that. just as a personality, can vivek stand up and be tough against aggressive people? i'm not so sure...

- vivek saying "climate change is a hoax" might have been a mistake since it will be incorrectly used against him, but he is technically correct. hoax can means lies, exaggeration, and deception, and there is a lot of that regarding the climate

- tuned in mainly to see vivek's performance. did worse than i expected, but also great for a first timer. these debates are a joke though, you get 30 seconds to talk? gtfoh, this needs to be a 10 hour back and forth for proper discourse.

 

[blaseblase]

Later, in the first bit of the debate, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie compared Ramaswamy’s answers to something cranked out by ChatGPT.

I'm almost convinced Vivek's entire political platform and talking points are AI generated.

So you just copied Chris Christie?

 

[Gutter Chris]

The thing that is so fucking insane to me is that there are no red states and blue states when there are ballot measures.

Every state is:
-- Pro medicare
-- Pro unions
-- Pro living wage
-- Pro choice
-- Pro legalized pot
Etc.

When these things actually get put directly on the ballot, even in blood red states, they pass.

So, how do we get to where we are?

It's the culture war. Both sides have stoked it so many times that even though we agree about the things you just mentioned people don't see each other as well meaning brothers they see each other as enemies. So we just look like Americans when it's direct but get reps and parties involved and it's tribal warfare.

Boring legislation doesn't make people rock hard the same way yelling and feeling like they are defeating their enemies does.

 

[DrDune]

Vivek dominated some portions and came across as smug in others, IMO. That condescending laugh he uses comes across as arrogance when he doesn’t need to resort to it. Shot himself in the foot with the “climate change hoax” bit as well. I believe he’s easily the most intelligent person on that stage, whether you agree with his points or not. And there are many I do not.

Thought Haley did really well, I’d give her the overall win tonight.

 

[FIMN]

Genuine question - is there a way anyone else could become the Republican nominee other than basically saying they are crazy and pandering to grievance?

As in - are there actual debates about policy? Is it just trannies and tax cuts all the way down?

 

[Bwagster]

After watching that debate I'm definitely voting for Trump, unless they take him out.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

I do hespect Ramalamadingdong's hustle and skills...

But he's fucking nuts.

vivek shines in long format, not this 30 second jeopardy round bullshit.

 

[Poon Goon]

Genuine question - is there a way anyone else could become the Republican nominee other than basically saying they are crazy and pandering to grievance?

As in - are there actual debates about policy? Is it just trannies and tax cuts all the way down?

If this forum were a microcosm of the general population then it looks like republicans don't actually give a fuck about their party. A couple popped in to bitch about how non republicans were the only ones posting in this thread. I could be wrong, but I think @ShadowRun was the only right leaning poster that seemed to be paying attention. When he's not actively trying to be a moron he seems to make some sense.

 

[curryjunkie]

Vivek says open up the mental hospitals… and don’t use drug interventions, but faith-based something. What a hack.

So he ain't the new desantis? In 6 months time when he has slipped down the polls like ron nobody here will admit they supported him..

 

[curryjunkie]

Funny how ITT it's mainly leftist posters who are engaged in this debate with only a couple rightwing posters commenting.

Also funny how they seem to be rooting for Christie and Pence lmao (predictable, actually).

When you say rooting, it just means they recognise typical slimy republicans , not batshit maga types who sound deranged..

 

[skold]

So you just copied Chris Christie?

Well, Christie was right about it. Vivek is legitimately as blatant of an example of a GOP npc as you can get. Not a single unique stance on anything...

 

[Jack V Savage]

The thing that is so fucking insane to me is that there are no red states and blue states when there are ballot measures.

Every state is:
-- Pro medicare
-- Pro unions
-- Pro living wage
-- Pro choice
-- Pro legalized pot
Etc.

When these things actually get put directly on the ballot, even in blood red states, they pass.

So, how do we get to where we are?

I think the hatred for Biden expressed by Chris kind of illustrates the problem. If you believe every crazy attack by the opposition, of course everyone who is in office is a monster. And also, no one likes to talk about this, but a lot of it still goes back to slavery.

 

[Prefect]

Biden is the biggest liar of all time


Trump would be, but he gets a pass since his brain is actually just a hamburger

Trump isn't an idiot. He just thinks he is smart enough to fool everyone but really he can only fool 40% of the population all the time. Trump is straight up malicious and cancer and should not be mistaken for being "just a fool".